Static electricity - Quantity of charge induced.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between mechanical energy input and the amount of static charge induced on materials, specifically in the context of rubbing cat fur with nylon. Participants explore theoretical frameworks and practical considerations related to static electricity, energy conservation, and charge accumulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about a formula to determine the amount of charge induced on materials after rubbing them together.
  • Another participant suggests that knowing the capacitance of the body allows for an upper limit on charge based on conservation of energy, referencing the equation E = 0.5 Q²/C.
  • A different participant expresses a need for a relation connecting mechanical energy input to static charge accumulation, mentioning known capacitance and resistance values.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of calculating the induced charge due to numerous unknown factors affecting efficiency, with one participant proposing that the work done rubbing the materials can be calculated but noting energy losses due to friction.
  • Another participant proposes an experimental approach to measure applied force and resulting voltage to determine energy losses and efficiency in charge accumulation.
  • A later reply indicates a method to derive charge induced by considering the force of friction, distance, and efficiency, referencing a specific efficiency value from a Van de Graaf generator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the ability to calculate the charge induced, with some suggesting theoretical frameworks while others emphasize the challenges posed by real-world variables. No consensus is reached on a definitive method or formula.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on unknown factors affecting efficiency, such as friction and energy losses, and the need for experimental validation to determine actual charge accumulation rates.

Girish198
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Hi all,
Let us say I have rubbed cat fur with nylon. Is there any relation for determining the amount of charge (in Coulombs) induced on either of the materials?
Thanks in advance.
 
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I suppose if you know the capacitance of the cat then Conservation of Energy sets an upper limit on the charge :-)

E = 0.5 Q2/C

PS: I can't help work out the efficiency with which your mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy in the cat.
 
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Dear CWatters,
First, Thank you for the reply. Please consider the following - I need the static discharge energy as the final result. I have the capacitance (C) of the body. I know the resistance (R) to ground. I need the rate of charge accumulation (Q/t) or the amount of charge accumulation (Q) on a body when it/he/she is moving at a velocity 'v' or any other condition. I am what can be called a naive in PHYSICS. Please let me know if anyone has come across some relation which connects the mechanical world to the amount of static charge deposited.
Thanks and best regards
Girish
 
I doubt it's possible to calculate it. Too many real world unknown factors effect the efficiency with which charge is accumulated. The best I can offer is an upper limit from Conservation of Energy...

For example the work you do rubbing the two together can be calculated from

Work = force * distance.

The resulting energy stored in the capacitance of the body can't be greater than that due to conservation of energy. The problem is that some unknown percentage of the applied force applied will be lost overcoming friction (released as heat) rather than charging the capacitor.

So you have an equation like

Energy applied = Energy losses + Energy stored in the capacitor

Filling in what you know gives..

Force * distance = ?? + 0.5CV2

You could run an experiment and measure the applied force, the velocity and the resulting voltage on the capacitor. That would allow you to calculate the percentage lost to friction (and other effects).

If you prefer you could work with Power rather than Energy...

Power = ΔEnergy/Time

so you have

Force * Distance/time = ?? + Power into the capacitor

which gives

Force * Velocity = ?? + Power into the capacitor

but you still have the unknown power loss due to friction and other effects which I think can only be determined by experiment.
 
@CWatters
Thank you. You have given me an idea from which I can derive my charge induced. Force of friction x distance x efficiency (about 2 percent, from Van de Graaf generator efficiency)= energy stored in capacitor (0.5 x C x V2);
 

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