Static Electricity: What Causes Attraction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of static electricity, specifically addressing the attraction between positive and negative charges, the underlying forces at play, and the phenomena associated with lightning. Participants explore theoretical explanations, the fundamental forces of nature, and the mechanisms behind these electrical interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define "static" as a state where charges are stationary and build up on surfaces until a discharge occurs.
  • It is proposed that the attraction between positive and negative charges is due to the electric force, with no consensus on a deeper explanation for "why" this force exists.
  • One participant notes that without the electromagnetic force, electrons would not be bound to atoms, leading to a lack of elements.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the fundamental understanding of the universe, questioning the existence of a unified theory for all forces.
  • There is a discussion about the process of lightning, with one participant suggesting that electrons move from the Earth's surface to neutralize positive charges in clouds, while another challenges this by stating that clouds typically have a surplus of negative charge.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about theories like string theory, finding them to be overly fictional.
  • The electroweak theory is mentioned as the name of the theory that unifies electromagnetism and the weak force.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the fundamental understanding of forces and the nature of scientific inquiry, particularly regarding "why" questions. There is no consensus on the deeper explanations for the attraction between charges or the specifics of lightning formation.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on assumptions about the nature of charges and forces, and there are unresolved questions regarding the mechanisms of lightning and the completeness of current theories.

Jadaav
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What does static mean ?

Why is a positive charge attracted to a negative charge ? What makes them attractive ?
 
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Jadaav said:
What does static mean ?

The word static means "fixed" or "unmoving." In this context, it means there's no current: charges aren't flowing around. They are stationary and just slowly build up on surfaces, until two surfaces with opposite net charge get close enough that a "discharge" can occur (all of the unbalanced charges on one surface suddenly travel to the other surface and vice versa, making everything neutral). This is the "shock" that stings you when you get a build up of static on your body and then touch something else.

Jadaav said:
Why is a positive charge attracted to a negative charge ? What makes them attractive ?

The charges are attracted to each other by the electric force. As for "why", the best answer we can give you is, "because that's the way the electric force works." Any two electric charges will experience a force between them. If those two charges are of the same type, then that force will repulsive. If the charges are of opposite types, the force between them will be attractive.

Magnetism and electricity are two aspects of the same phenomenon, which is called electromagnetism. Electromagnetism is one of the four *fundamental* forces of nature along with gravity, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force.

There are well-tested theories that unify electromagnetism and the weak force, (i.e. they can both be explained using the same underlying theory). There are some theories now that are attempting to unify all four forces, but for now, there is no better answer to the question of "why" there are four forces and why they work they way they do other than, "because that is the way nature fundamentally works."
 
Why is a positive charge attracted to a negative charge ?

So you can be here.

Without the electromagnetic force there would be no electrons bound to atoms ...no elements...just 'lonely' nuclei wandering around...no nothing except maybe space and time.
 
Both of your explanations have been very explicit to me. My question was "why" but as cepheid said we don't really understand how the universe fundamentally works. I thought we already knew about it.

I want to know the name of the underlying theory that unifies Electromagnetism and Weak force.

My next question is :

When the wind comes into contact with the clouds, the electrons come out of the cloud. This creates a positive charge on the cloud. This attracts electrons on the surface of the earth. When there is enough charges,i.e, when the force of attraction is strong enough, the electrons from the Earth's surface move to neutralise the positive charges.

The electrons move from downwards to upwards, so why do we see lightning moving from upwards to downwards ?
 
Jadaav said:
Both of your explanations have been very explicit to me. My question was "why" but as cepheid said we don't really understand how the universe fundamentally works. I thought we already knew about it.

That's NOT what I said. What I said was that we DO have AN understanding of how the universe fundamentally works, and our BEST current understanding of how the universe fundamentally works is that there are four types of forces. Some of these have been unified, but for the most part, we don't yet have a fully-fledged underlying theory that explains WHY there are four forces and not five, or three, and why the forces have the relative strengths that they do. That's not actually true: we do have such theories, but they are not yet subject to experimental test.

It could be that there is such a theory that will explain these things, OR it could be that there are NO answers to these questions and *that's just the way it is.* If so, then any further "why" questions are not within the realm of science to answer. Science describes HOW nature works. That is its purpose. Some "why" questions can be answered by answering the "HOW" i.e. by explaining the underlying mechanism for a phenomenon. But eventually, as you keep digging deeper for more and more fundamental underlying explanations for things, you will reach a point where the answer to your "why" question is simply, "because that's the way nature is." At that point, it is not the purpose of science to explain "why" it is that way.

Jadaav said:
I want to know the name of the underlying theory that unifies Electromagnetism and Weak force.

The electroweak theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroweak_interaction
 
Jadaav said:
When the wind comes into contact with the clouds, the electrons come out of the cloud. This creates a positive charge on the cloud. This attracts electrons on the surface of the earth. When there is enough charges,i.e, when the force of attraction is strong enough, the electrons from the Earth's surface move to neutralise the positive charges.

The electrons move from downwards to upwards, so why do we see lightning moving from upwards to downwards ?

I think that there are still some aspects of lightning that are not fully understood. I certainly am not an expert.

However, a brief glance at the Wikipedia article suggests that you simply have things backwards: you get a surplus of negative charge on the cloud, not a deficit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#Lightning_initiation
 
I understood what you said. But still theories like the "String theory" seems too much fictional to me in a sense.

Thanks, I'll read more about the Electroweak theory.
 

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