Stuck on the derivation of pV^gamma=c

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    Derivation Stuck
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the relation pV^{\gamma}=constant for an ideal gas undergoing an adiabatic process. Participants are examining the mathematical steps involved, particularly the partial derivatives related to temperature, volume, and pressure.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over the derivation step involving the partial derivative \(\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right)_p\) and its relation to the ideal gas law.
  • Another participant points out that temperature T is a function of both volume V and pressure P, suggesting that the derivative must consider this dependency.
  • A subsequent reply clarifies that since pressure is held constant, the derivative simplifies to \(\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right)_p\).
  • Further discussion includes a participant acknowledging a misunderstanding and attempting to clarify the relationship between pressure and temperature in the context of the ideal gas law.
  • One participant expresses relief after realizing the connection between the terms involved, indicating a moment of clarity regarding the derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion appears to involve some confusion and clarification among participants, with no consensus reached on the initial misunderstanding regarding the derivative. Multiple viewpoints are presented, but the resolution of the confusion is not fully established.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of partial derivatives in the context of thermodynamics, specifically under the constraints of an ideal gas and adiabatic processes. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the relationships between variables in the ideal gas law.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals studying thermodynamics, particularly those grappling with the mathematical aspects of gas laws and adiabatic processes.

Fosheimdet
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I have been tearing my hair out for a while over a step in the proof of the relation pV^{\gamma}=constant. The textbook has assumed that we are dealing with an ideal gas undergoing an adiabatic process. Therefore dQ=0 and we get

$$C_vdT + (c_p-c_V)\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right)_pdV=0$$
which gives
$$dT=-(\gamma-1)\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right)_pdV$$
Where $$\gamma=\frac{C_p}{C_V}$$

Now comes the part I don't get. They say that because we are dealing with an ideal gas, we have $$T=pV/nR$$ which gives $$\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right)_p = \frac{T}{V}$$
Why isn't \left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right)_p=p/nR? Is there something obvious I'm missing? Would love to get this cleared up so I can get some sleep tonight.
 
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Fosheimdet said:
T=pV/nR
What's dT? Remember, T is function of both V and P.
 
Yes, but p is constant as indicated by the subscript in \frac{\partial T }{\partial V}_p.
 
Oops, dragged a "red herring" in front of you. Maybe it's too obvious.
Fosheimdet said:
p/nR \left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right)_p=p/nR? Is there something obvious I'm missing?
What's p/nR? Ideal gas. Rearrange things any way you wish, and p/nR is also equal to ____ ?
 
T/V. You have my gratitude. I will now shed a tear for all the sleep this trivial thing has cost me.
 
Been there, done that.
 

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