Substituting differentials in physics integrals.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the substitution of differentials in the context of deriving the equivalence between rotational and translational kinetic energy. Participants explore the mathematical justification for these substitutions within integrals, focusing on the implications of varying variables in the equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation of rotational kinetic energy from translational kinetic energy, questioning the validity of their differential substitutions.
  • The same participant suggests that both velocity and mass are varying, which may require additional terms in the differential substitutions.
  • Another participant asserts that the product rule is not applicable in this context, indicating a misunderstanding of the integration process involved.
  • A later reply acknowledges the confusion and expresses gratitude for the clarification provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to substituting differentials, with one participant questioning the need for additional terms while another challenges the application of the product rule.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the application of differential calculus in physics, particularly regarding the treatment of varying quantities during integration.

subsonicman
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Today I tried to show that rotational kinetic energy was equivalent to standard translational kinetic energy.

So I started with kinetic energy, T = ∫dT. Then, because T=1/2mv^2, I substituted dT=1/2v^2dm and then because m=ρV, I substituted dm=ρdV. Then, after substituting v=ωr, I got the equation for rotational kinetic energy, 1/2Iω^2.

The problem I have is with the substituting differentials. Shouldn't dT=1/2v^2dm+vdvdm because both v and m are varying? Also, shouldn't dm=ρdV+Vdρ? I remember seeing this substitution made when calculating the mass of some shape from its density but I can't seem to justify it from the knowledge I have.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
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subsonicman said:
Today I tried to show that rotational kinetic energy was equivalent to standard translational kinetic energy.

So I started with kinetic energy, T = ∫dT. Then, because T=1/2mv^2, I substituted dT=1/2v^2dm and then because m=ρV, I substituted dm=ρdV. Then, after substituting v=ωr, I got the equation for rotational kinetic energy, 1/2Iω^2.

The problem I have is with the substituting differentials. Shouldn't dT=1/2v^2dm+vdvdm because both v and m are varying?
1. dT = (1/2)v^2.dm + mv.dv
2. what is dv/dm ?
 
You're confused. You're not doing an integration by parts. You're just doing a change of variable of integration. The product rule makes no sense here.
 
Yeah, I was being stupid. Thanks for the help!
 

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