Superheated Steam Turbine - on a question please

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculations related to a superheated steam turbine, specifically focusing on the properties of steam entering and exiting the turbine. Participants are addressing various aspects of thermodynamic processes, including adiabatic expansion, specific volumes, enthalpy, and the determination of steam quality and conditions using steam tables.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Participants discuss the initial conditions of superheated steam entering the turbine at 10 bar and 300 degrees Celsius, and exiting at 0.046 bar.
  • There is a suggestion that the specific volume at the turbine input can be found directly from superheated steam tables, but the output requires further calculations.
  • Some participants propose using the formula for dryness fraction and enthalpy to determine the steam condition at the exit, while others seek clarification on the necessary values from the steam tables.
  • One participant notes that the process is adiabatic and suggests that entropy remains constant, but another points out the need to clarify the distinction between adiabatic and isentropic processes.
  • There is confusion regarding the notation used for specific volume and entropy, with participants correcting each other on terminology and units.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how to determine the properties of the steam at the exit, particularly regarding whether to refer to saturated or superheated tables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the calculations required for the exit conditions of the steam. There are multiple competing views on how to interpret the data from steam tables and the implications of the adiabatic process.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of steam tables, particularly regarding the definitions of specific properties like saturated liquid and vapor enthalpy and entropy. There are unresolved questions about the necessary assumptions for calculating the dryness fraction and specific work output.

Christy001
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1. Superheated Steam enters a turbine with a pressure of 10 bar and a temp of 300 degrees celsius, and exits with a pressure of 0.046 bar. As the steam flows through the turbine it undergoes adiabatic expansion according to the law pv to the power 1.131 = constant
From Steam tables I have to calculate :
a) specific volume of steam at the turbine input and output (I assume that's just v straight from the Superheated tables at the relevant pressures ?)
b) Saturated vapour specific volume for the steam output pressure and state the steam condition ?
c) dryness fraction of the steam at the turbine exit ?
d) theoretical specific work output of the turbine ?
Can anyone help me on the above please as I've scoured the internet for a solution and got part of the way in understanding but then can't follow how the things are found on the steam tables and what equations are used - any help would be greatly appreciated
 
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Christy001 said:
1. Superheated Steam enters a turbine with a pressure of 10 bar and a temp of 300 degrees celsius, and exits with a pressure of 0.046 bar. As the steam flows through the turbine it undergoes adiabatic expansion according to the law pv to the power 1.131 = constant
From Steam tables I have to calculate :
a) specific volume of steam at the turbine input and output (I assume that's just v straight from the Superheated tables at the relevant pressures ?)
b) Saturated vapour specific volume for the steam output pressure and state the steam condition ?
c) dryness fraction of the steam at the turbine exit ?
d) theoretical specific work output of the turbine ?
Can anyone help me on the above please as I've scoured the internet for a solution and got part of the way in understanding but then can't follow how the things are found on the steam tables and what equations are used - any help would be greatly appreciated
Since this is a homework question, you should have filled out the HW Template. Those are the Rules.

In order to receive help, you must also show some attempt at solving these questions.

For a) You have sufficient info for the inlet conditions to find spec. volume.

The same is not true for the exit, as seen by questions b), c), and d), where you must determine how the steam changes condition as it flows thru the turbine.
As stated in the problem, PVγ = Constant, where γ = 1.131

Here is more information on adiabatic processes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process

This should be enough information for you to work thru questions b), c), and d).

If you get stuck, repost to this thread with the details and we'll see if these blocks can't be overcome. :smile:
 
Hi - this is what I have worked out so far :
a) specific volume of steam at the turbine input and output :
At state 1 call the values S1, H1 and at state 2 call the values S2, H2,
From the Superheated steam tables I've looked up 300 degrees C and 1000 Kpa to give S1 (Sg) 7.125KJ/KG-K and H1 (Hg) = 3,052.15 KJ/KG
I know that as the process is Adiabatic then S1 = S2 therefore I think the answer to part (a) is 7.125 Kj/Kg-K for both answers.
(b) I know for this part I need to use the formula : S2 = Sf + x times Sfg - where x=dryness factor (but I don't know what Sf and Sfg are so I can solve for x so I need a pointer here please .
(c) x is is dryness fraction so I have found this out in part (b) I believe
(d) to find the work done I know that for an adiabatic process this is the change in H, so it's H2 - H1 - I know H1 from above. I know I need to use the formula :
H2= Hf + x times Hfg (at 0.046 bar) = I have worked out x - so do I just get Hf and Hfg from the Superheated Steam tables ?
thanks.
 
You want to reconsider the meaning of "adiabatic". The case ##\Delta S=0## is goes under the name "Isentropic".
The given expression for ##pv## should help you further to find the exit temperature.
 
Christy001 said:
Hi - this is what I have worked out so far :
a) specific volume of steam at the turbine input and output :
At state 1 call the values S1, H1 and at state 2 call the values S2, H2,
From the Superheated steam tables I've looked up 300 degrees C and 1000 Kpa to give S1 (Sg) 7.125KJ/KG-K and H1 (Hg) = 3,052.15 KJ/KG
I know that as the process is Adiabatic then S1 = S2 therefore I think the answer to part (a) is 7.125 Kj/Kg-K for both answers.
S generally denotes the entropy of a substance, not specific volume, which is usually denoted by v. Also, the units of specific volume are m3/kg.
The steam tables also use g to denote the property in the vapor phase and f in the fluid phase; hence Sg is the entropy of the steam in the vapor phase.

You must pay attention to the units listed for each property.

(b) I know for this part I need to use the formula : S2 = Sf + x times Sfg - where x=dryness factor (but I don't know what Sf and Sfg are so I can solve for x so I need a pointer here please .

You must correct your work on part a) first.

(c) x is is dryness fraction so I have found this out in part (b) I believe
Not according to what you wrote in the previous section.

(d) to find the work done I know that for an adiabatic process this is the change in H, so it's H2 - H1 - I know H1 from above. I know I need to use the formula :
H2= Hf + x times Hfg (at 0.046 bar) = I have worked out x - so do I just get Hf and Hfg from the Superheated Steam tables ?
thanks.

If you've worked out the quality of the exhaust steam x, you haven't shared it with us yet.

The steam tables will list the enthalpy, entropy, and specific volume for the vapor and fluid phases of water/steam.
 
You know the exit pressure, and you know that the exit stream is a combination of liquid water and water vapor. What does that tell you about whether it is saturated or not? If it's saturated, what is the entropy of the saturated liquid, and what is the entropy of the saturated vapor? What is the temperature? What is the enthalpy of the saturated liquid and the saturated vapor. What is the enthalpy of the stream?

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
You know the exit pressure, and you know that the exit stream is a combination of liquid water and water vapor. What does that tell you about whether it is saturated or not? If it's saturated, what is the entropy of the saturated liquid, and what is the entropy of the saturated vapor? What is the temperature? What is the enthalpy of the saturated liquid and the saturated vapor. What is the enthalpy of the stream?

Chet
Hi. Thanks for the reply. This is where I get stuck as I can understand that when the steam enters at 450 it is superheated but at exit do I need to go back to the Saturated tables to obtain the temperature ?
 
Christy001 said:
Hi. Thanks for the reply. This is where I get stuck as I can understand that when the steam enters at 450 it is superheated but at exit do I need to go back to the Saturated tables to obtain the temperature ?
By nature, superheated steam has a vapor quality of 100%, so yes, for the turbine exhaust, you'll have to go to the saturated vapor tables and use the vapor quality to calculate the properties of the exhaust steam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_quality
 

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