Thermodynamics help please -- Air passing through a gas turbine system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics homework problem involving air passing through a gas turbine system. Participants are exploring concepts related to energy balance, heat transfer loss, and the application of the steady flow energy equation in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how to proceed with part c of the problem, specifically regarding the meaning of heat transfer loss in the steady flow equation and how to find the power developed by the turbine system.
  • Another participant suggests starting with an energy balance, indicating that heat transfer loss may refer to heat leaking into the environment.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of the open system version of the first law of thermodynamics and encourages writing down the relevant equation for the steady state problem.
  • There is a reiteration of the energy balance equation, with some participants expressing confusion about its interpretation.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between mass flow rate, density, velocity, and area, with one participant asserting that mass flow rate is the product of these three variables.
  • One participant calculates the exit velocity of the air as 171.71 m/s based on the exit cross-section and mass flow rate.
  • There is uncertainty expressed regarding whether the heat transfer loss of -40 kJ/kg is represented by Q in the energy balance equation.
  • Another participant clarifies that the heat transfer loss represents Q/M, prompting further requests for explanations.
  • Some participants express difficulty understanding the provided worked solution and request more detailed workings out with explanations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and confusion regarding the application of the energy balance equation and the interpretation of heat transfer loss. There is no consensus on the correct approach to solving the problem, as multiple interpretations and levels of understanding are present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the application of the energy balance equation and the role of heat transfer loss, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of the problem. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with thermodynamic principles and the specific context of the homework problem.

clark123
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Summary:: NO TEMPLATE BECAUSE THIS HOMEWORK PROBLEM WAS MISPLACED IN A REGULAR FORUM

Cant do part c, using the steady flow equation I am confused how to continue. Please help!

Mainly confused as to what heat transfer loss represents in the steady flow equation and where to go to find the power.

Air passes through a gas turbine system at a rate of 4.5kg/s. It enters the turbine system with a velocity of 90 m/s and a specific volume of 0.85m3 /kg. It leaves the turbine system with a specific volume of 1.45m3 /kg. The exit area of the turbine system is 0.038m2 . In its passage through the turbine system, the specific enthalpy of the air is reduced by 200kJ/kg and there is a heat transfer loss of 40kJ/kg.

Determine: a. The inlet area of the turbine in m 2
b. The exit velocity of the air in m/s
c. The power developed by the turbine system in kW.
 
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I believe that heat transfer loss refers to heat leaking into the environment.

Like many thermodynamics problems, the place to start is to make an energy balance. Can you do that and post it here? Energy in, energy out, energy lost.
 
You are learning about the open system (control volume) version of the 1 st law. Please write down that equation as it applies to this steady state problem.
 
I'd believe the equation is Q - W = M[(Ho-Hin)+(Co^2-Cin^2)/2]
I can interpret it normally but just confused.
 
clark123 said:
I'd believe the equation is Q - W = M[(Ho-Hin)+(Co^2-Cin^2)/2]
I can interpret it normally but just confused.
Good. Now, how is mass flow rate related to density, velocity, and area?
 
Mass flow rate is the product of all 3 combined I’m pretty sure.
 
clark123 said:
Mass flow rate is the product of all 3 combined I’m pretty sure.
Good. If you apply this to the exit cross section, what do you get for the exit velocity?
 
171.71m/s
 
Good. So using the equation in post #4, what do you get for W?
 
  • #10
That's my main point of confusion, is the heat transfer loss of -40kJ/Kg represented by Q in the formula? Or is it something else?
 
  • #11
clark123 said:
That's my main point of confusion, is the heat transfer loss of -40kJ/Kg represented by Q in the formula? Or is it something else?
It represents Q/M
 
  • #12
Okay didn't realize that, would you be able to explain why please?
 
  • #13
2CQ3.PNG
 
  • #14
There is the worked solution they give you, do not understand it at all.
 
  • #15
clark123 said:
Okay didn't realize that, would you be able to explain why please?
It's just the way they chose to do it. Nothing wrong with that.
 
  • #16
clark123 said:
There is the worked solution they give you, do not understand it at all.
Yes. They did a nice job. That was the answer I got.
 
  • #17
If possible, would you be able to do some more detailed workings out with explanations as I cannot see where they have gone so quickly, take a photo and put it in here? No worries if not!
 
  • #18
clark123 said:
If possible, would you be able to do some more detailed workings out with explanations as I cannot see where they have gone so quickly, take a photo and put it in here? No worries if not!
If I take your equation in post #4 and solve for ##\dot{W}##, I get:
$$\dot{W}=\dot{M}\left[\frac{\dot{Q}}{\dot{M}}-(h_{out}-h_{in})-\frac{(c_{out}^2-c_{in}^2)}{2}\right]$$
with $$\frac{\dot{Q}}{\dot{M}}=-40\ \frac{kJ}{kg}$$
$$(h_{out}-h_{in})=-200\ \frac{kJ}{kg}$$
and $$\frac{(c_{out}^2-c_{in}^2)}{2}=\frac{(171.71^2-90^2)}{2}=10692\ \left(\frac{m}{s}\right)^2=10692\ \frac{J}{kg}=10.692\ \frac{kJ}{kg}$$
 

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