Stargazing Supermoon Monday: Closest Approach in 70 Years

[hagar]

Super moon Monday 11/14/16 . Full moon's closest approach in 70 years.

 

[Chronos]

No worries, next supermoon is 2034

 

[hagar]

At my age I probably won't be around then.

 

[Ophiolite]

At my age I probably won't be around then.

Give it a go! I anticipate the first manned landing on Mars that year. I am holding on for that, so we get two for the price of one.

 

[hagar]

Sounds great, I hope it works.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Super moon Monday 11/14/16 . Full moon's closest approach in 70 years.

... by such a small margin that it makes very little difference.

There are a few similar full moons each year which are significantly brighter than average. You won't be able to tell the difference without advanced equipment.

 

[Andy Resnick]

You won't be able to tell the difference without advanced equipment.

Not true, the angular size difference is quite apparent:

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Not true, the angular size difference is quite apparent:

Sorry, I meant that this particular "best since whenever" super moon is not going to look particularly different from other super moons without the use of advanced equipment.

The difference between a super moon and an average or apogee moon is much more easily seen, especially in photos as you've illustrated, and also visibly affects the brightness.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Took a look outside last night but it didn't seem much larger. Maybe needs to be closer to the horizon. hmmm

 

[Pet Scan]

Not true, the angular size difference is quite apparent:

I took a look at it last night .
Real beautiful and bright. I could see it was apparently larger than usual full moons; but then again I have been a lunar observing guy for many years.
Thanks Andy for the angular comparison ; I was wondering about that ...and also how much closer in miles is this lunar perigee than the usual or average perigees. ?? I was also trying to figure if the increased brightness was significant enough to be apparent...That's a lot harder to recognize on a distributed source...at least for me...My cognition doesn't always remember on intensity levels... ;))
Pet Scan

 

[Pet Scan]

Ok; just found this chart; looks like for 2016 the difference from closest to fartherest perigee is about -13,000 Km. (est. from the chart)
However, this month's perigee looks like it barely beat out that of last April. Hmm. So if this was the closest in 70 years ...it must have been by a v. small margin.
http://www.lunarplanner.com/LunarPerigee/index.html
https://www.physicsforums.com/LunarPerigee-2016.png

Edit:
Ok; here's the numbers he lists to compare Apr. with Nov, perigees for 2016 .
Apr. - 357163 km
Nov. - 356511 km
OK...that shows a difference of only 652 Km. or 405 miles.

 

[Stephanus]

At my age I probably won't be around then.

Come on, it's just another 18 years later. I hope you can enjoy it, then.

 

[rbelli1]

<offtopic>

Come on, it's just another 18 years later. I hope you can enjoy it, then.

That is a quarter life expectancy on this world. While everyone wants to live forever pragmatism says that about 25% of everyone you are talking to here will not live to see the next super(full)moon.
</offtopic>

BoB

 

[hagar]

I agree, it is not a long time but in human terms it can amount to forever. I am glad to see those coming up after me looking forward, (there is much to see that is not now known).

 

[davenn]

There's super moons every year
you won't need to wait long ... just that little longer for the super, super moon

 

[hagar]

I plan to do my best at being here for it.

 

[Stephanus]

<offtopic>

That is a quarter life expectancy on this world. While everyone wants to live forever pragmatism says that about 25% of everyone you are talking to here will not live to see the next super(full)moon.
</offtopic>

BoB

I agree, it is not a long time but in human terms it can amount to forever. I am glad to see those coming up after me looking forward, (there is much to see that is not now known).

You guys scientists are always pragmatic . Saying that it's God who controls our lifes (or the weather or the orbit of the planets or even the location, superposition, of the electrons) would be useless .
Okay, what I want to know is this.
I'm no science guy.
So this supermoon, it's because the moon looks very large doesn't it? So it's always be at full moon?
Will the moon is in apogee (or perigee) in full moon or new moon?
Or full moon doesn't have to do the the moon in apogee?
Or supermoon should always be at full moon?

Second, perhaps this is off topic.
I've read the inclination angle of Earth and moon, but still doesn't understand.
Can we draw the orbit of moon and Earth around the sun on a sheet of paper?
I mean the orbit of the moon is exactly on the Earth orbit plane around the sun?

Thanks

 

[Janus]

Not true, the angular size difference is quite apparent:

In this image, yes it is. However, Take two quarters and put one 8 feet away and the other 9 feet away and you will have a good representation of how the moon appears to the naked eye at perigee and apogee. Now if these quarters are against a plain background, and far enough apart that you can't directly compare them side by side, you would be hard pressed to notice the difference in their apparent size.

 

[davenn]

I've read the inclination angle of Earth and moon, but still doesn't understand.
Can we draw the orbit of moon and Earth around the sun on a sheet of paper?
I mean the orbit of the moon is exactly on the Earth orbit plane around the sun?

Thanks

no it's not, else we would get a total eclipse of the sun and moon every month

have a think about it

 

[Stephanus]

no it's not, else we would get a total eclipse of the sun and moon every month

have a think about it

Not really, if somehow the distance prevents it?Okay...
Now, about supermoon. Supermoon doesn't always have to be in apogee? But it has to be full moon?

 

[davenn]

Not really, if somehow the distance prevents it?Okay...

but using existing real world distances that there currently are, the moon would always pass directly between the Earth and the sun
is it wasn't a total eclipse, it would be at least an annular eclipse. And because of the moon's closeness to the earth,
I'm pretty sure it would always be a total lunar eclipse

 

[davenn]

Now, about supermoon. Supermoon doesn't always have to be in apogee? But it has to be full moon?

by definition it is always the full moon and therefore always at apogee

 

[Stephanus]

but using existing real world distances that there currently are, the moon would always pass directly between the Earth and the sun
is it wasn't a total eclipse, it would be at least an annular eclipse. And because of the moon's closeness to the earth,
I'm pretty sure it would always be a total lunar eclipse

Oh, okay.
And about the supermoon...?
Perhaps I'd like to ask a question here.
Supermoon always in apogee? Yes
Supermoon always in fullmoon? Yes I type this post before your answer came
Fullmoon always in either apogee or perigee?
And newmoon likewise?

 

[davenn]

Fullmoon always in either apogee or perigee?
And newmoon likewise?

no

full moon ALWAYS apogee
new moon ALWAYS perigee

 

[Stephanus]

no

full moon ALWAYS apogee
new moon ALWAYS perigee

Oh, I didn't know if it is such a coincidence.
I think, it has something to do with the gravity of the Sun

 

[Jonathan Scott]

no

full moon ALWAYS apogee
new moon ALWAYS perigee

What are you on about? Have I missed something? This is definitely not generally true.

Super moon occurs when full moon is near to perigee (closest point of moon's orbit to earth).

Full moon and new moon occur at points in moon's orbit when it is away from the sun and towards the sun with respect to earth. This is independent of the apogee and perigee of the moon's slightly elliptical orbit around the earth. The orientation of the orbital ellipse is approximately fixed relative to the stars, so full moons (which occur about 13 times a year) occur at various different points in the orbit. The distances to those points vary approximately sinusoidally during the year, so about three or four consecutive full moons are near perigee (making super moons), three or four are near apogee (making the moon smaller than average) and the rest are somewhere in the middle.

The exact height of the perigee changes slightly due to other factors (depending for example on where Earth is in its own elliptical orbit) and the closest full moon in a given year may occur some time before or after the perigee. The recent super moon was a case where the perigee was at its closest for many years and the full moon occurred within hours of the perigee, so it was a "best case", but this is not very different from a typical super moon.

 

[DennisN]

(sorry, I could not resist, I read this on facebook today )
"If it's too cloudy for you to see the Supermoon... just put a tortilla on your window."

 

[Stephanus]

no

full moon ALWAYS apogee
new moon ALWAYS perigee

What are you on about? Have I missed something? This is definitely not generally true.

Super moon occurs when full moon is near to perigee (closest point of moon's orbit to earth).

No, you didn't. It's easy to confuse them. (perigee and apogee)

Full moon and new moon occur at points in moon's orbit when it is away from the sun and towards the sun with respect to earth. This is independent of the apogee and perigee of the moon's slightly elliptical orbit around the earth. The orientation of the orbital ellipse is approximately fixed relative to the stars, so full moons (which occur about 13 times a year) occur at various different points in the orbit. The distances to those points vary approximately sinusoidally during the year, so about three or four consecutive full moons are near perigee (making super moons), three or four are near apogee (making the moon smaller than average) and the rest are somewhere in the middle.

The exact height of the perigee changes slightly due to other factors (depending for example on where Earth is in its own elliptical orbit) and the closest full moon in a given year may occur some time before or after the perigee. The recent super moon was a case where the perigee was at its closest for many years and the full moon occurred within hours of the perigee, so it was a "best case", but this is not very different from a typical super moon.

Thank you very much JS. I think supermoon always in perigee, but it's not.

 

[Andy Resnick]

In this image, yes it is. However, Take two quarters and put one 8 feet away and the other 9 feet away and you will have a good representation of how the moon appears to the naked eye at perigee and apogee. Now if these quarters are against a plain background, and far enough apart that you can't directly compare them side by side, you would be hard pressed to notice the difference in their apparent size.

...which is why quantitative methods of measurement are useful.

 

[davenn]

What are you on about? Have I missed something? This is definitely not generally true.

Super moon occurs when full moon is near to perigee (closest point of moon's orbit to earth).

calm down

No, you didn't. It's easy to confuse them. (perigee and apogee)
Thank you very much JS. I think supermoon always in perigee, but it's not.

yeah I boo-boo'ed ... sorry
with oscillations of the orbit, the perigee or apogee can move "back and forwards". So sometimes new moon can be closer than full moon and visa versa

 

[Pet Scan]

In this image, yes it is. However, Take two quarters and put one 8 feet away and the other 9 feet away and you will have a good representation of how the moon appears to the naked eye at perigee and apogee. Now if these quarters are against a plain background, and far enough apart that you can't directly compare them side by side, you would be hard pressed to notice the difference in their apparent size.

Betcha a silver quarter I can see the difference. The lunar angular diameter can vary from 29.43 arc minutes at apogee to 33.5 arc minutes at perigee—over 4 minutes of arc -- or an increase of around 14% in apparent diameter or 30% in apparent area . Of course, that is according to WikiLeaks-a-pedia...and they got it from NASA. They wouldn't lie to us would they?