Surface integral to line integral

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between a surface integral and a line integral, specifically focusing on the identity involving the differentiation of a double integral with respect to a parameter. Participants explore the mathematical foundations and transformations necessary to derive the line integral from the surface integral.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Daniel presents an integral identity involving a double integral and seeks clarification on how to derive the corresponding line integral.
  • Some participants suggest using the Heaviside step function and discuss the implications of differentiating with respect to the parameter t, noting the appearance of a Dirac delta function.
  • One participant proposes changing variables from x and y to s and g as a potential method to simplify the problem.
  • Another participant questions the relationship between dxdy and dsdw, seeking clarification on the variable w in relation to the constant g.
  • Concerns are raised about the behavior of the derivative dy/dx approaching infinity and its implications for the transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate methods to approach the problem, with no consensus reached on the best path forward or the validity of proposed transformations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions regarding the behavior of the functions involved and the specific conditions under which the transformations are valid.

dspch11
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I am agonizing about the following integral identity:

[tex] \frac{d}{dt} \int \int_{g(x,y) \leq t} f(x,y) dx dy = \int_{g(x,y)=t} f(x,y) \frac{1}{\left| \nabla g(x,y) \right|} ds,[/tex]

where ds is the line element. Clearly, using the Heavisite step function, the condition [tex]g(x,y) \leq t[/tex] is transferred into the integrand. Differentiation with respect to t yields a Dirac delta-function. However, how can I eventually arrive at the line integral. The picture is quite clear, if one imagines a domain defined by [tex]g(x,y) \leq t[/tex] which is growing with t. The increase in the integral can then be evaluated by summing contributions along its circumference with [tex]\left| \nabla g(x,y) \right|[/tex] giving the density of isolines.

How can one formally obtain this result?

Thank you for you help,
Daniel
 
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Welcome to PF!

Hi Daniel! Welcome to PF! :smile:

(have a del: ∇ and an integral: ∫ and a ≤ :wink:)

Have you tried changing variables from x and y to s and g ?
 


tiny-tim said:
Have you tried changing variables from x and y to s and g ?

Is this what you suggest:

[tex] s = \int \sqrt{ 1 + (\frac{dy}{dx})^2} dx[/tex]

for constant g we have furthermore:

[tex] g(x,y) = t = const \Rightarrow<br /> g_x + g_y \frac{dy}{dx} = 0[/tex]

and, thus,

[tex] s = \int \sqrt{ 1 + (g_x/g_y)^2} dx[/tex]

The jacobian determinant is

[tex] J = 1/(\left| g_x s_y - g_y s_x \right|) = 1/(\left| 0 - g_y \sqrt{ 1 + (g_x/g_y)^2} \right|) = 1/(\left|\nabla g \right|)[/tex]

What about if [tex]\frac{dy}{dx}[/tex] goes to infinity?
 
uhh? :confused:

dxdy is obviously dsdw, for some w perpendicular to g = constant …

what is that w, in terms of x y and g ? :smile:
 

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