History Survive and Get Rich/Famous/Powerful in History: Time Travel Test

[micromass]

Assume that you are being sent back in time. You can choose the exact time period, but it has to be more than 200 years ago. You cannot bring anything with you.

How would you use your current knowledge in order to survive? Would you be able to get rich/famous/powerful? Note: you cannot learn anything new before going, you'll have to rely on everything you know right now.

Assume that language barriers won't be an issue.

 

[Joyal Babu]

Since I already know the history of how things are to be,I will use this knowledge of mine to become rich/famous/powerful you name it.

 

[beamie564]

Since I already know the history of how things are to be,I will use this knowledge of mine to become rich/famous/powerful you name it.

If you happen to know things before time, they'll probably persecute you for black magic!

 

[Joyal Babu]

I don't think people are stupid enough to believe in black magic 200 years back(atleast in the developed countries).Even if they do they will probably try to use me rather than get rid of me.

 

[micromass]

I don't think people are stupid enough to believe in black magic 200 years back(atleast in the developed countries).Even if they do they will probably try to use me rather than get rid of me.

So you're transported to a village in 1816. What would you predict exactly to impress the people?

 

[Joyal Babu]

Maybe there's not much I can do in a village,but certainly if I can share with them knowledge,and some of the designs or ideas in weapons,I would get in touch with the higher ups and hopefully I could put to use the history card!

 

[micromass]

Maybe there's not much I can do in a village,but certainly if I can share with them knowledge,and some of the designs or ideas in weapons,I would get in touch with the higher ups and hopefully I could put to use the history card!

And I assume you know how to design and construct weapons?

 

[Joyal Babu]

Lets assume I know how to create simple types of explosives which are fashioned from day to day stuffs

 

[Joyal Babu]

At the very least I will show them how to make soaps!

 

[micromass]

Lets assume I know how to create simple types of explosives which are fashioned from day to day stuffs

Do you know it, since this thread is strictly about things you do know! And you don't think that people in 1816 knew about explosives?

 

[micromass]

At the very least I will show them how to make soaps!

Soap was invented in 2800 BC.

 

[Joyal Babu]

Not every place in the world has access to soaps even today,so certainly not 200 years back.Even if I lose the soap card I could get in touch with the scholars there and tell them about some of the scientific stuffs to get in touch with the higher ups

 

[beamie564]

Would you be able to get rich/famous/powerful?

That would be secondary. Given that I don't know anything about hunting/chopping wood or any other such basic thing, I wonder if I'd actually survive. Also, I don't know anything much about the lifestyle in previous times so I'd be heavily dependant on someone else.

 

[micromass]

Not every place in the world has access to soaps even today,so certainly not 200 years back.Even if I lose the soap card I could get in touch with the scholars there and tell them about some of the scientific stuffs to get in touch with the higher ups

Sure, not every place knew about soaps. But then you'll have no advantage over somebody born in 1816 who knew about soaps and who spreads it to a different place.

I could get in touch with the scholars there and tell them about some of the scientific stuffs to get in touch with the higher ups

Like what?

 

[Joyal Babu]

Depends on where you want to be 200 years back.You don't really need to know chopping/hunting to live

 

[Joyal Babu]

Special relativity

 

[micromass]

Special relativity

OK.
1) You know all the details about special relativity?
2) You think you can prove them that special relativity is true?
3) You think they would care in 1816 when electricity wasn't even invented or well understood and Newtonian mechanics would not have been challenged?

 

[Joyal Babu]

Proving the theory would be difficult but that isn't the only card I have is it.I can show them maxwells laws(would be difficult to do will have teach them vector calculus and stuff).The point is I have a good chance to getting in touch with the higher ups,then its the history card

 

[Joyal Babu]

Actually what was your intent behind the question?

 

[micromass]

Proving the theory would be difficult but that isn't the only card I have is it.I can show them maxwells laws(would be difficult to do will have teach them vector calculus and stuff).The point is I have a good chance to getting in touch with the higher ups,then its the history card

Sure. But at 1816, electricity was just an intellectual curiosity. So unless you can make some useful applications with electricity, I don't think many people outside of some scientists would care for discoveries of electricity. But sure, I guess teaching them about Maxwell's laws would be a valid possibility, and I'm sure it will impress some people.

 

[Joyal Babu]

You seem to have gone a bit sarcastic:/. Well it was an interesting question and I am glad to have talked over this with you.Just out of curiosity what would you do

 

[micromass]

You seem to have gone a bit sarcastic:/. Well it was an interesting question and I am glad to have talked over this with you.Just out of curiosity what would you do

Nono! I'm not sarcasting at all! I'm just pointing out possible flaws in your plan. I do honestly agree that teaching them Maxwell's equations might impress some top scientists, provided you get in touch with the right people.

 

[Bandersnatch]

That's tough. The only thing I can come up with, is to get transported to early 1680s, get a job as a carpenter (I know me some rudimentary carpentry) or if that fails - a beggar, and start writing letters to Newton whenever I can afford it (heck, literacy wasn't all that common among lower classes back then, so maybe I'd get a job as a scribe).
I'd write some few tasty bits of what little I know about physics, astronomy, chemistry, etc., restate his own laws, maybe dress it all up in some mysticism, since he apparently liked it - all to get his attention, and hope he'd reach out wanting more. At that point I'd have a British lord as a patron, and spend my days talking physics and the meaning of life with Newton, which is as good a prospect as once can imagine. Heck, maybe I'd even manage to publish some of the anachronistic knowledge myself (yep - getting credit for somebody else's work).
Also, I'd probably try to write to other people than just Newton, trouble is, I kinda only remember Leibniz as his contemporary that might be interested in what I know.

edit: heh, basically just what micromass said in the post above :)

 

[Jonathan Scott]

We had a thread on this in December 2014: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/time-travel-thought-experiment-game.788691/
As I mentioned in that thread, I think I could probably build a DC electric motor using materials available at the time, as I did that at school (although that time I already had a horseshoe magnet and a battery, which I'd probably have to make myself at that time).

 

[micromass]

We had a thread on this in December 2014: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/time-travel-thought-experiment-game.788691/
As I mentioned in that thread, I think I could probably build a DC electric motor using materials available at the time, as I did that at school (although that time I already had a horseshoe magnet and a battery, which I'd probably have to make myself at that time).

The cutest thing about that thread is that people thought Jeb Bush would have a good chance of becoming the new president. Oh, the innocence of those days!

 

[micromass]

The cutest thing about that thread is that people thought Jeb Bush would have a good chance of becoming the new president. Oh, the innocence of those days!

I'll tell you one thing, if I could, I would travel to 2 years ago, I would gather as much money as I can and bet it all on Donald Trump becoming the republican nominee.

 

[Pepper Mint]

I'll tell you one thing, if I could, I would travel to 2 years ago, I would gather as much money as I can and bet it all on Donald Trump becoming the republican nominee.

In your area, do people also bet on nominees or winners of local or global elections like they usually do on car or horse racing ?

For the OP, I can travel to the point of 200 years ago and live my life with the knowledge I have had of 200 years ago, nothing new is being used to "survive". I think I know in advance what'll happen next then after the year 1816.

 

[Pythagorean]

It would really depend on where I landed - wilderness, rural, or city? I imagine a lot of us would be disgusted with the drinking water and hygiene in a big city. I have survival training experience, and hunting and fishing experience being raised Alaskan for base survival needs. But if I don't know the local animal and plant lore, and I don't land in a good spot, I could be toast right away.

Then there's etiquette. Will my mannerisms and behaviors be considered too weird for people, will I be able to adapt to their modes of communication, will I know enough about current events that were prominent public knowledge of the time but not so well recorded in history?

If I can survive the basics with this skillset, climbing the social ladder will require impressing the right people. Being able to read and write and do mathematics is already a huge advantage. I don't know how people got into labs or research positions back in the day. I'd have to shop around and see what was being offered and what fit my skill set. Once I'm a runt in a lab and have some resources, I can try to impress people with what is standard scientific knowledge today, I can start inventing. Some kind of air conditioning using water as a heat transport was my first thought. There's seemingly benign inventions, like the paper clip, that would be easy to produce (not sure how vibrant the paper industry would be at that point though). Knowing the appropriate shape and angle for an airplane wing might help me do some small proofs with wood models of air flight that would impress people. I could also sell my soul and do propaganda - we could get focus groups going to find out what people want to hear, then sell it to them in exchange for their rights (<3 politics).

I honestly think there is so much knowledge we take for granted that we would find ourselves at an advantage in many situations - however, convincing people that we know what we're talking about might not be possible in many cases and just make us look like crackpots. I would not dare attempt to bring up quantum mechanics or general relativity to anyone. I would pretend to naively make discoveries if I could (woah, look, light has a velocity and it is traveling at the same speed no matter what reference frame you're in!)

 

[fresh_42]

Perfect time margin. I would try to get part of the development of differential geometry. I would be very interested in how they handled it in the first place. I'm still curious whether this time period can really be regarded as a golden age of mathematics or whether I'm unfair to mathematicians in the 20th century. I tend to the first.

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

I'm not sarcasting at all!

Oh, cute! You've turned the word "sarcastic" into a verb. :!)

I'd travel back to the 18th century. Don't think that it would make me rich or famous, but I'd become a writer and sketch illustrated books especially for children. So many great books were written around that time, but most could not be read by the younger population. Of course, I'd love to meet Lavoisier, Scheele, or Jenner, but the chances of that are next to none.

Am I allowed to make time travel detours? Before hitting the 1700s, I'd like to visit Belgium in the 1930s and meet Hergé.

 

[m k]

How would you explain your blue blood hands without a background?

 

[Mark44]

That would be secondary. Given that I don't know anything about hunting/chopping wood or any other such basic thing, I wonder if I'd actually survive. Also, I don't know anything much about the lifestyle in previous times so I'd be heavily dependant on someone else.

I agree. Many people are so "civilized" and dependent on modern-day infrastructures and technologies, that they aren't able to survive without them even now, let alone 200 years ago. Just the simple action of making a fire is a skill that many don't have.

Depends on where you want to be 200 years back.You don't really need to know chopping/hunting to live

If you were transported to a cooler climate, such as northern Europe or parts of North America, having the skills to cut wood might be essential. In the tropics you might be able to survive on fruits and such, but in desert areas such as the Sahara and Saudi Arabia, hunting would be a crucial skill.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

I just realized that as I'm a competent pianist and violinist with a large repertoire of memorised music that would be an excellent way to establish some sort of status - although I'm not sure what they would think of Chopin and Rachmaninov's music before they had been born!

 

[Mark44]

I'm not sarcasting at all!

Oh, cute! You've turned the word "sarcastic" into a verb. :!)

Sure,
I sarcast
you sarcast
he/she/it sarcasts

we sarcast
you (pl.) sarcast
they sarcast

 

[fresh_42]

... although I'm not sure what they would think of Chopin and Rachmaninov's music before they had been born!

Chopin should work but Rachmaninov could you end up in a place where they button up their jackets on the rear ...

 

[rootone]

I will know in advance the result of every forthcoming horse race, not to mention stock market fluctuations, lotteries, elections, wars, and important scientific discoveries.
I should be able to get very rich before eventually being imprisoned or assassinated,

 

[fresh_42]

Sure,
I sarcast
you sarcast
he/she/it sarcasts

we sarcast
you (pl.) sarcast
they sarcast

Is it I sarcasted or as to cast simply I sarcast?

 

[Mark44]

Is it I sarcasted or as to cast simply I sarcast?

For the past tense (preterit), most authorities () favor "I sarcast", similar to "the fisherman cast his line into the river."

 

[micromass]

I will know in advance the result of every forthcoming horse race, not to mention stock market fluctuations, lotteries, elections, wars, and important scientific discoveries.
I should be able to get very rich before eventually being imprisoned or assassinated,

Really? You know the outcome of any horse race and stock market fluctuation of 1816?

 

[rootone]

well a lot of them anyway, since before I travel back in time much of the information will be available as historical records.

 

[micromass]

well a lot of them anyway, since before I travel back in time much of the information will be available as historical records.

You didn't read the first post did you? You must rely on your knowledge now, no studying allowed.

 

[rootone]

OK I missed that, I thought you just couldn't take anything physical with you.

 

[ebos]

I'd make a few lame predictions and then start my own religion. Then I'd grab a whole bunch of land (with my flock) where I know gold hasn't been discovered yet in 1816. Put them to work. The rest is history...

 

[collinsmark]

More than that, even if you are an expert on history, including the details of horse races and stock market fluctuations, it might not help you.

Many (perhaps even most) physicists would argue present the argument that if you did find yourself transported back in time, events would might then unfold increasingly independently of the history that brought you into your world (and ultimately into your time machine).

This is particularly true if the correct interpretation of quantum mechanics (QM) is the "Many Worlds" interpretation. You could go back in time, but there's essentially a zero chance that events would unfold as they did in your "knowledge" of history. Because you know only 1 history out of a vast number of possible histories.

So if that turns out to be the way time works, one's knowledge of specific events (e.g., horse races, stock markets, and even the results battles, wars and political upheavals) might turn out to be essentially useless.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

If you're trying to be realistic, I hate to think what would happen to the locals when I brought in 21st century germs, and I don't think my resistance to 19th century germs would be very good either. But I could play a good funeral march.

 

[mfb]

For 1816, assuming we can change the history, and assuming I don't get killed by the first disease that runs around. I looked up the historic discovery/invention dates after I wrote the text, I didn't know them but they wouldn't be relevant in this time travel scenario.

Can we bring the clothes we wear? Modern clothes would be impressive in 1816 or earlier. Wandering around naked, on the other hand, can make the start very challenging.
Survive: Find someone friendly enough to let you sleep+eat there, offer reading/writing or teaching how to read/write in return if possible, or worst case some work that doesn't require any modern-day knowledge.

Get in contact with academia: Assuming I land in western Europe or the US, I would try to get in contact with someone working on physics. 1816 is just in time to steal the discoveries that electric current produces a magnetic field (Ørsted 1820) and a moving magnet an electric field (Faraday 1821), and the invention of the first DC motor (Barlow 1822). Write down Maxwell's laws. That should be sufficient to get established as physicist, and gives more time and resources for further inventions/discoveries in collaboration with others. I don't know all the details of the key experiments and certainly cannot "just" reproduce them, but I know where to look.

Help improving electric sources and components, if the problem is a lack of knowledge.
Find the Hall effect, establish electrons as positively charged!
Invent a Geiger counter, discover radioactivity. Introduce the concept of atoms.
Invent the periodic system.
If chemists at that time can make an alpha source of sufficient activity, perform the Rutherford experiment, discover the electric nucleus.
See if a mass spectrometer is possible to build.
...
All those things need increasingly large collaborations, but if you know where to look you can probably advance many discoveries.

Special relativity: Only if Michelson-Morley has been done, or if no one questions things I predict any more...
Quantum mechanics: Maybe once the hydrogen spectrum has been measured (Balmer series: 1885)
Relativistic QM, QFT, GR: I could point others to what they should look for, but I can't write it down as complete theory.

More particle physics: If the tools allow it.
Other physics: Also largely tool-dependent. Sure, I know that the CMB exists, that galaxies receed and so on, but without the devices to measure that it doesn't help.

 

[Joyal Babu]

mfb you have nailed everything down perfectly.If you were ever to time travel you might just end up being the most revered and intelligent person in human history.

 

[Joyal Babu]

Say guys what might we expect to find two hundred years into the future.What might be the most profound change?Definitely we have become very advanced compared to our ancestors 200 years back,can we actually expect such a huge change 200 years from now?If yes what all might it be.Which all science fictions can actually become reality.

 

[mfb]

can we actually expect such a huge change 200 years from now?

Unless something catastrophic happens, I would expect even more. Research progress and also its impact on our lives tend to get faster. Life in 1913 (to avoid the war) was different from 1813, but no comparison to the 2013 world.

1963? Different from 1913, but computers were still exotic massive devices, and the internet an experimental thing between a few academic institutes. Number of people working on computers for most of their time: negligible. Average time spent on computers for things other than work: even more negligible. The C64 was still 19 years away.

 

[EnumaElish]

Say guys what might we expect to find two hundred years into the future.What might be the most profound change?Definitely we have become very advanced compared to our ancestors 200 years back,can we actually expect such a huge change 200 years from now?If yes what all might it be.Which all science fictions can actually become reality.

Genetic engineering of, and across, species an everyday occurrence - and problem. Heavily regulated by governments, officially restricted to certifiable cases of medical necessity and public interest done in licensed labs, yet unofficially performed in backstreet alleys for physical and mental enhancement, with side effects - some rather unpleasant for the bearer, others for the public, yet others for both.