Admissions Taking longer to complete the degree

[robotkid786]

Hi Guys, I'm doing a Mathematics and Physics BSc in the UK. I'm studying it part time in my own time. Would is be disadvantageous in the long run to take longer to complete the degree? I have health problems that don't allow me to study as intensely for as long as I'd like. Every time I ramp up the speed I end up withdrawing from the modules I'm doing. If I study one module per year, excluding the year I've done so far; it'll take me eight years, but if I max out to 60 credits per year; it'll be six years. Either way, six to nine years for a Bachelors; will this hold me back?

• • Essential Mathematics I (30)
    Essential Mathematics II (30)
    Questions in Science (60)
    
    Core Physics (60)
    Mathematical Method, Models and Modelling (60)
    
    Cosmology and the Distant Universe (30)
    Quantum Physics: Fundamentals and Applications (30)
    Complex Analysis (30)
    Mathematical Methods and Fluid Mechanics (30)
    
    
    

 

[CrysPhys]

"Either way, six to nine years for a Bachelors; will this hold me back?"
Hold you back from what exactly?

Your profile states that you previously completed a BA in Economics. In a previous thread (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/how-to-discern-between-hobby-and-passion.1080621/), you also stated:

"I have nothing else going for me career wise. I wanted to go to UK’ ICG in Portsmouth for PhD Cosmology."

Is that still your plan?

So, how old are you now? What is your ultimate goal after you complete all your studies, and how old will you be then? Are you financially independent?

 

[robotkid786]

Yeah, still similar plan, cosmology is up for competition with nuclear physics though - so the destination depends on where my interests and strengths lie. But PhD and then research is the plan yeah.

I won't disclose my age, but i'm in the late 20s. I'll be in mid early 30s when graduating this degree. I am independent

*Will it hold me back from securing employment or phd

 

[gleem]

With regards to a job, you may have to explain why you took so long. How that is accepted cannot be predicted. However, I believe it would be a disadvantage when applying for a PhD since the program is more difficult and typically takes more than four years for an average student to complete. Would they be willing to give you an open-ended timeline to finish especially when you are competing against students who likely will finish in the normal time?

 

[ohwilleke]

Hi Guys, I'm doing a Mathematics and Physics BSc in the UK. I'm studying it part time in my own time. Would is be disadvantageous in the long run to take longer to complete the degree? I have health problems that don't allow me to study as intensely for as long as I'd like. Every time I ramp up the speed I end up withdrawing from the modules I'm doing. If I study one module per year, excluding the year I've done so far; it'll take me eight years, but if I max out to 60 credits per year; it'll be six years. Either way, six to nine years for a Bachelors; will this hold me back?

• • Essential Mathematics I (30)
    Essential Mathematics II (30)
    Questions in Science (60)
    
    Core Physics (60)
    Mathematical Method, Models and Modelling (60)
    
    Cosmology and the Distant Universe (30)
    Quantum Physics: Fundamentals and Applications (30)
    Complex Analysis (30)
    Mathematical Methods and Fluid Mechanics (30)

FWIW, this seems like a pretty light load for a BA in physics.

Potential employers/graduate programs aren't going to care terribly much, per se, if you took a long term to earn your degree for some good reason if you eventually did earn it.

For example, if someone took eight years to earn a degree because they were a foster child with no family support who had to work in a grocery store to care for a younger sibling full time while also studying, that wouldn't be held against you to any great extent and might even be a plus as it shows unusual determination to meet your goal.

But, this wouldn't be a problem, in part, because once you were admitted to a PhD program or hired onto a job, you would no longer have to work full time at some other job since your assistantship or job would pay for your expenses allowing you to work or study full time going forward.

Likewise, no one would care if you took longer to get a degree because you were a national of a country where you had to do a couple of years of mandatory military service in the middle of your studies (as, for example, South Koreans must).

On the other hand, if the cause of your taking the slow route to earn a degree was an ongoing one, such as an ongoing and incurable health condition (e.g. ALS), that would also mean that you couldn't work full time towards your graduate studies or job, that would often be a deal breaker. But if the health condition was cured by the time you applied to the graduate program or job, they probably wouldn't care much.

Likewise, if the cause of your taking the slow route to earn a degree was that you were in a work release program from jail for making fraudulent reports to health and safety inspectors at your job, this would also probably seriously hurt your prospects, because it would reveal something that was disqualifying for a graduate program or job where high standards of honesty and accuracy in reporting are critical.

But the point is that it is the underlying cause of what is limiting your ability to graduate on time, and not the mere fact that you took longer to get a degree, that would be the main issue.

On the other hand, graduating behind schedule, at all, is almost certain to result in an interview question asking what happened. It's a yellow flag to would trigger a question, even if there are lots of answers to the questions asked that wouldn't be a concern if they were the reason for the delay.

Health problems that prevent you from working full time would be a problem with most graduate programs, although you might find a sympathetic one (it would be a gamble where you'd have to invest a lot of time in advance before knowing the outcome), and the only part-time job that requires high level physics knowledge, that I can think of, is freelance science journalism.

A PhD in physics typically takes from 3-5 years and can take up to about 7 years, which is faster than in the social sciences and humanities by a lot, but even when working at it full time (including your teaching assistant or research assistant job), it is still a long haul. More than double that, due to needing to work part-time and the likelihood that your health may require you to take a term off entirely once or twice, and you're looking at more than a decade in all likelihood, and that's not something that most graduate programs would have patience for.

 

[robotkid786]

FWIW, this seems like a pretty light load for a BA in physics.

Potential employers/graduate programs aren't going to care terribly much, per se, if you took a long term to earn your degree for some good reason if you eventually did earn it.

For example, if someone took eight years to earn a degree because they were a foster child with no family support who had to work in a grocery store to care for a younger sibling full time while also studying, that wouldn't be held against you to any great extent and might even be a plus as it shows unusual determination to meet your goal.

But, this wouldn't be a problem, in part, because once you were admitted to a PhD program or hired onto a job, you would no longer have to work full time at some other job since your assistantship or job would pay for your expenses allowing you to work or study full time going forward.

Likewise, no one would care if you took longer to get a degree because you were a national of a country where you had to do a couple of years of mandatory military service in the middle of your studies (as, for example, South Koreans must).

On the other hand, if the cause of your taking the slow route to earn a degree was an ongoing one, such as an ongoing and incurable health condition (e.g. ALS), that would also mean that you couldn't work full time towards your graduate studies or job, that would often be a deal breaker. But if the health condition was cured by the time you applied to the graduate program or job, they probably wouldn't care much.

Likewise, if the cause of your taking the slow route to earn a degree was that you were in a work release program from jail for making fraudulent reports to health and safety inspectors at your job, this would also probably seriously hurt your prospects, because it would reveal something that was disqualifying for a graduate program or job where high standards of honesty and accuracy in reporting are critical.

But the point is that it is the underlying cause of what is limiting your ability to graduate on time, and not the mere fact that you took longer to get a degree, that would be the main issue.

On the other hand, graduating behind schedule, at all, is almost certain to result in an interview question asking what happened. It's a yellow flag to would trigger a question, even if there are lots of answers to the questions asked that wouldn't be a concern if they were the reason for the delay.

Health problems that prevent you from working full time would be a problem with most graduate programs, although you might find a sympathetic one (it would be a gamble where you'd have to invest a lot of time in advance before knowing the outcome), and the only part-time job that requires high level physics knowledge, that I can think of, is freelance science journalism.

A PhD in physics typically takes from 3-5 years and can take up to about 7 years, which is faster than in the social sciences and humanities by a lot, but even when working at it full time (including your teaching assistant or research assistant job), it is still a long haul. More than double that, due to needing to work part-time and the likelihood that your health may require you to take a term off entirely once or twice, and you're looking at more than a decade in all likelihood, and that's not something that most graduate programs would have patience for.

It’s a joint honours, so 50% maths and 50% physics hence fewer physics modules.

Currently aiming for Imperials Quantum Fields and Quantum Gravity MA/MSc - so that’ll patch up any missing physics modules later on

 

[gwnorth]

Currently aiming for Imperials Quantum Fields and Quantum Gravity MA/MSc - so that’ll patch up any missing physics modules later on

Something to maybe consider is that graduate courses are typically more advanced versions of undergraduate courses and frequently require them as prerequisites.

 

[robotkid786]

Something to maybe consider is that graduate courses are typically more advanced versions of undergraduate courses and frequently require them as prerequisites.

I’ve been doing a lot of extra reading (actual stuff like physics textbooks like stuff written by Purcell and Kibble for example). I’m hoping it’ll patch up and bring me upto a higher standard of physical intuition as well as mathematical competence

I appreciate the course I’m doing isn’t as advanced in terms of topics but the learning material is so good that it gives me a good comprehension or understanding foundation to tackle more complicated textbooks

As far as UK standards go though, the degree is still considered meeting the requirements (assuming you get the grade)

 

[CrysPhys]

As far as UK standards go though, the degree is still considered meeting the requirements (assuming you get the grade)

Meeting the minimum requirements to get an undergrad degree is one thing, excelling in an undergrad program to be competitive for admission to a masters (and later PhD) program is another thing. Remember, your personal circumstances already place you at a disadvantage. You've identified your target masters and PhD programs. Check their standards for admission.

 

[Muu9]

FWIW, I've never seen a UK master's base their requirements on anything beyond your grade in your physics course. I assume it's because UK students can't choose their courses so it wouldn't be fair to discriminate against those going to a uni that doesn't happen to include course X in their bachelor's degree.

 

[CrysPhys]

FWIW, I've never seen a UK master's base their requirements on anything beyond your grade in your physics course. I assume it's because UK students can't choose their courses so it wouldn't be fair to discriminate against those going to a uni that doesn't happen to include course X in their bachelor's degree.

Student A has a slightly higher GPA in physics courses than Student B. Student A has taken only the minimum core physics courses, while Student B has taken the minimum core physics courses, plus several advanced physics courses. In addition, Student A has not performed any undergrad research projects, while Student B has completed two, along with strong letters of recommendation. Are you saying that Student A would likely be admitted over Student B?

 

[Muu9]

Student A has a slightly higher GPA in physics courses than Student B. Student A has taken only the minimum core physics courses, while Student B has taken the minimum core physics courses, plus several advanced physics courses. In addition, Student A has not performed any undergrad research projects, while Student B has completed two, along with strong letters of recommendation. Are you saying that Student A would likely be admitted over Student B?

UK universities generally don't allow taking "several advanced courses" in addition to the standard degree - the degree is just the degree. You take the modules you're supposed to. And undergraduate research is somewhat less common (and therefore less expected).
Even the most prestigious physics master's in the UK doesn't require specific courses, or research, but rather only a certain grade: https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/postgrad/part-iii/prospective/mast-admissions#:~:text=The required level for admission,year, or xx% overall.

 

[CrysPhys]

UK universities generally don't allow taking "several advanced courses" in addition to the standard degree - the degree is just the degree. You take the modules you're supposed to. And undergraduate research is somewhat less common (and therefore less expected).
Even the most prestigious physics master's in the UK doesn't require specific courses, or research, but rather only a certain grade: https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/postgrad/part-iii/prospective/mast-admissions#:~:text=The required level for admission,year, or xx% overall.

Thanks for the info. Substantially different practice than in the US.