Temperature variations in body regions

[chirhone]

In thermal scanners in airports, subway, hospital and other stations to monitor the Coronavirus carriers. They point it at the foreheads, or is it the neck?

We use home fever thermometers on our ears or armpits and not forehead. What are the variations of temperature in different parts of the body and which are more representative of fever that can be detected by these thermal scanners?

 

[chemisttree]

Forehead scanners are inaccurate. No way around it. Scanning people at the airport with these things is slightly better than worthless.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSPAR05104120070810

 

[chirhone]

Forehead scanners are inaccurate. No way around it. Scanning people at the airport with these things is slightly better than worthless.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSPAR05104120070810

That article was describing forehead thermometers. I was inquiring about:

This is used in so many places especially at present for Coronavirus fever screening.
Normal temperature is 36 C. I think the thermal scanners are measuring for 39 C? I think a difference between 36 C and 39 C can be seen?

 

[rbelli1]

I think a difference between 36 C and 39 C can be seen?

Perhaps the machine is set to highlight any temperatures above the target temperature?

BoB

 

[chemisttree]

That article was describing forehead thermometers. I was inquiring about:
(something else)

Whaaaaat? You did post the following:

“In thermal scanners in airports, subway, hospital and other stations to monitor the Coronavirus carriers. They point it at the foreheads, or is it the neck?

We use home fever thermometers on our ears or armpits and not forehead. What are the variations of temperature in different parts of the body and which are more representative of fever that can be detected by these thermal scanners?”

Trolling much?

 

[chirhone]

Whaaaaat? You did post the following:

“In thermal scanners in airports, subway, hospital and other stations to monitor the Coronavirus carriers. They point it at the foreheads, or is it the neck?

We use home fever thermometers on our ears or armpits and not forehead. What are the variations of temperature in different parts of the body and which are more representative of fever that can be detected by these thermal scanners?”

Trolling much?

The article was describing forehead IR thermometers. I was asking about thermal scanners. And i was asking because i have a thermal scanner. But never used it to scan fevers in people and wondering if its accurate.

 

[jim mcnamara]

IR is a thermal measurement -- at the temperatures you mention. @chemisttree said they are not super accurate. He is correct. Normal body temp readings of the forehead range from 35C to 36.5C in normal healthy humans. At rest, in a 20C room fully clothed.

The reason for the variation in "normal" has to with a large number of physiological responses which affect surface blood flow to the forehead. Pulse rate is one. Lower pulse rate, like when you are at rest, reduces the amount of blood flowing under the skin. Cooler reading. Coming in from outside temperatures above 38C raises the reading. Jogging to the airport raises external BT readings, too.

Not because the instruments are inaccurate. Biology is the problem. The problem is not because of the use of improperly maintained equipment. Or really deficient methodology. The most prominent problem is the implementation. Which is political. See the link below.

Methodology means - the prescribed and laboratory tested use Are you following directions that say your device is meant to work as a body temp scanner. Methodology. No mention in your directions means NO, it has not been verified for that use.

Political means- some guy decides to scan 20 people every ten seconds to save money or time, or to seemingly increase inconvenience

The very most accurate quick body temp is usually considered to be via anal thermometers. To say the least, this is not remotely practical with gangs of 200 airplane passengers.

Please do not start nit picking at something you do not seem to understand fully.

Here is an informed discussion, most of the problems are related not to the equipment:
https://irinfo.org/05-01-2016-chandler/

 

[chemisttree]

...Jogging to the airport raises external BT readings, too...

...The very most accurate quick body temp is usually considered to be via anal thermometers. To say the least, this is not remotely practical with gangs of 200 airplane passengers.

There would be some pretty grim faces in that line, I imagine.

 

[Rive]

That article was describing forehead thermometers. I was inquiring about:
...
This is used in so many places especially at present for Coronavirus fever screening.
Normal temperature is 36 C. I think the thermal scanners are measuring for 39 C? I think a difference between 36 C and 39 C can be seen?

This kind of screening can pick suspects only from a mass of people, and not about actual fever measurement. Real mesurement comes later, by qualified personnel, away from the mass.
This method is somewhat usable in case the scanned mass is from an uniform environment.

Those cheap thermocams displaying the temperature with different colors, usually along with the 'red is hot' tendency. So the whole screening is just just about picking out those who are a bit more red on the display for actual measurement by the medical staff. That's all.

 

[Laroxe]

Yes, basically they are not taking a persons temperature they are trying to identify individuals that show significant differences, they can use more specific and accurate measures later. All the different sites and measuring devices tend to show some differences and very few really measure the core temperature. Its easy to adjust the range for different sites the important thing is to use a consistent approach.
What is worrying is that even the best screening (antibody testing) is failing to identify infected individuals and once people board a plane they are exposed to recycled air for long periods. Four people evacuated from Japan to the UK after testing negative, tested positive on arrival.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

What is worrying is that even the best screening (antibody testing) is failing to identify infected individuals and once people board a plane they are exposed to recycled air for long periods.

AFAIK, there are no antibody-based tests for the Covid-19 virus. Most of the tests are based on RT-PCR detection of viral RNA. For example, on Feb 11, Science magazine wrote:

Today, there aren’t nearly enough test kits available to keep up with the skyrocketing case numbers, and some parts of the world may lack enough trained laboratory staff to apply them. And because the genetic tests look for snippets of viral genetic material in nose and throat swabs or fluid collected from the lung, they only work when somebody has an active infection. Scientists are still scrambling to detect antibodies against the virus in the blood, which could help find people who had an infection and recovered.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/labs-scramble-spot-hidden-coronavirus-infections

 

[Laroxe]

AFAIK, there are no antibody-based tests for the Covid-19 virus. Most of the tests are based on RT-PCR detection of viral RNA. For example, on Feb 11, Science magazine wrote:https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/labs-scramble-spot-hidden-coronavirus-infections

I didn't know that, its a bit worrying really as that would be an important part of vaccine development and testing.

 

[Laroxe]

I didn't know that, its a bit worrying really as that would be an important part of vaccine development and testing.

I think someone must have read this discussion, they have just started using an antibody test.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-solve-some-medical-mysteries?t=1583003302766

 

[chirhone]

Each of them is lining up for forescan scan. I wonder if the crowded nature of it can spread the virus more if one of them has it and sneeze (there is now 24 cases, and not just 10).

If I lend him my thermal imager. Would it be faster? As you guys explained. It's just to determine if there is significant difference in one person, and not for measuring fever. So do you admit a FLIR brand thermal imager can make it faster than putting each ir thermometer near the forehead (with hundreds lining up at entrance? This is duplicated in all malls, offices, schools and places.

The battle has just began. COVID-19 has infiltrated in our midst.

 

[chirhone]

In our Lockdown against the COVID-19, the military checks each passenger for entry and exit of the Lockdown zone using a forhead thermometer.
Can a thermal imager be faster? What are they not using a thermal imager? Is spot IR thermometer more accurate than a thermal imager as far as just getting the surface temperature of the skin (and not the core temperature as detailed already earlier)?