Temperature vs Magnetic Strength (Flux) relationship in ferromagnets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between temperature and magnetic strength (flux) in ferromagnets, particularly through experimental observations and theoretical frameworks. Participants explore the application of Bloch's T3/2 law and seek alternative equations to describe this relationship, while discussing experimental setups and results across a temperature range of 10ºC to 200ºC.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an experiment measuring magnetic strength changes with temperature and references Bloch's T3/2 law, questioning its applicability and the meaning of constants α and β.
  • Another participant asks about observations at temperatures above 80ºC and requests literature plots for various permanent magnet materials.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of readings from a hot magnetometer compared to a cool one, with one participant noting a minimal temperature increase of the magnetometer itself during the experiment.
  • A participant mentions a previous similar thread where another user provided helpful insights regarding the temperature effect on magnetism, noting a linear trend observed in their own experiments with neodymium and bar magnets.
  • Links to relevant literature and previous discussions are shared to support the inquiry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the application of Bloch's law and the behavior of magnetometers at elevated temperatures. Multiple viewpoints exist on the interpretation of experimental results and the appropriate equations to use, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the best model or equation to describe the temperature-magnetic strength relationship, and there are unresolved questions regarding the accuracy of measurements taken during the experiments.

shreyaan
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TL;DR
I've conducted an experiment by placing a magnet onto a hot plate and fixing my magnetometer at a fixed distance from the magnet. Then I turned the hot plate on and logged the change in magnetic strength as temperature rises. Is there an equation which can summarize this relationship?
I've conducted an experiment by placing a magnet onto a hot plate and fixing my magnetometer at a fixed distance from the magnet. Then I turned the hot plate on and logged the change in magnetic strength as temperature rises.
I did some research and found Bloch T3/2 law.
{\displaystyle {\frac {M(T)}{M(0)}}=\left(1-(T/T_{c}\right)^{\alpha })^{\beta },}
but I'm not so sure about how I can apply it. Will this even work? I'm using temps from 10ºC to 200ºC. I'm guessing M(T) is magnetic strength at temp T (in Kelvins?) and M(0) is magnetic strength at absolute zero. T is current temp and T_C is the curie temperature.

Is there any other equation which can summarize this relationship? If not, is the equation mentioned above right? What do the α and β signify? Are they constants or need to found out empirically.

I'm also unsure whether to use the equation mentioned above or this equation with the power 3/2.
{\displaystyle M(T)=M(0)\left(1-(T/T_{c}\right)^{3/2}),}


Please feel free to correct me if I've made any mistakes. Thanks for your help!
 
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Welcome to PF.

shreyaan said:
I'm using temps from 10ºC to 200ºC.
What did you observe for temperatures above about 80C? :wink:

And can you show us some plots from the literature for various permanent magnet materials across temperature? (Use the "Attach files" link below the Edit window)

If you could give us some links to the reading you've been doing about this subject,that would be helpful for us as well. Thanks.
 
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To add to @berkeman 's questions - how sure are you that a hot magnetometer reads the same as a cool one?
 
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berkeman said:
Welcome to PF.


What did you observe for temperatures above about 80C? :wink:

And can you show us some plots from the literature for various permanent magnet materials across temperature? (Use the "Attach files" link below the Edit window)

If you could give us some links to the reading you've been doing about this subject,that would be helpful for us as well. Thanks.
Hey! This is the graph I got. The temperature is in Kelvins here.
Screenshot 2024-07-02 at 5.55.09 PM.png



Here are the links I've read so far:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_magnetization#CITEREFChikazumi1997
https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_36.html#Ch36-S6
plus some research papers...
 
Vanadium 50 said:
To add to @berkeman 's questions - how sure are you that a hot magnetometer reads the same as a cool one?
The magnetometer itself didn't heat up as much. I measures a 2-4ºC increase from start to finish. Plus the magnetometer wasn't right next to the hot plate so that prevented some infrared potentially messing with the electronics. I've attached a diagram of my setup.
Screenshot 2024-07-02 at 6.00.46 PM.png
 
Any help would be appreciated guys!!
 
There was a similar thread at PF a few years ago, and @Charles Link was able to provide some good help:

Scoopadifuego said:
I have recently done an experiment testing the effect of temperature on magnetism through measurement of magnetic flux at a constant distance away from the measuring device. I used a range of 0-90 C for neodymium and bar magnets, and found a reasonably linear trend, with a similar slope to what I was expecting from its coefficient of residual induction.
 
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Thank you, I will have a look.
 
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