Tensor transforming law problem / metric-delta contraction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation of tensors under a change of basis and the properties of the Kronecker delta in relation to the metric tensor. Participants explore the mathematical implications of these concepts, including specific calculations and definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a transformation problem involving a second-order tensor and expresses confusion over discrepancies in their calculations when applying the transformation law.
  • The same participant questions the validity of their results, noting that their derived tensor does not match the expected outcome.
  • Another participant asserts that the Kronecker delta with lower indices can be expressed in terms of the metric tensor, suggesting that it is equivalent to the metric itself.
  • A different participant challenges this view, referencing external sources that define the Kronecker delta as a distinct entity and questioning the appropriateness of contracting it with the metric.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is disagreement regarding the interpretation of the Kronecker delta and its relationship with the metric tensor. Some participants propose that the lower-index delta is equivalent to the metric, while others argue that it is not a tensor and should not be treated as such.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and properties of the Kronecker delta in different contexts, as well as the implications of tensor transformations. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and differing interpretations of tensor notation.

teddd
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Hey guys it's me again!
I'm now asking you 2 question, I'm sure you'll be helpful as usual!

1) changing basis- changing tensors

ok, the law of transformation of a (let's make this simple) 02 tensor is g_{\mu '\nu '}=\frac{\partial x^\alpha}{\partial {x^{\mu}}'}\frac{\partial x^\beta}{\partial {x^{\nu}}'} g_{\alpha\beta}where the prime indices indicate the new coordinate system.

I found an exercise where you're given the tensor <br /> S_{\mu\nu=}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cc}<br /> 1&amp;0\\0&amp;x^2<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)<br />

in coordinate (x^1=x , x^2=y)
and you're asked to write it down in the new primed coordinate (x^1=x&#039;,x^2=y&#039;) withx&#039;=\frac{2x} {y} and y&#039;=\frac{y}{2}

So that
\begin{array}{ccc}<br /> \frac{\partial x^1}{\partial {x^{1}}&#039;}&amp;=&amp;y&#039;\\<br /> \frac{\partial x^ 2}{\partial {x^{2}}&#039;}&amp;=&amp;x&#039;\\<br /> \frac{\partial x^1} {\partial {x^{2}}&#039;}&amp;=&amp;0\\<br /> \frac{\partial x^2}{\partial {x^{2}}&#039;}&amp;=&amp;2\\<br /> \end{array}Now using the formula above i can write, for the first element :S_{1 &#039; 1 &#039;}= \frac{\partial x^\alpha}{\partial {x^{1}}&#039;}\frac{\partial x^\beta} {\partial {x^{1}}&#039;}S_{\alpha\beta}=(\frac{\partial x^1}{\partial {x^{1}}&#039;})^2S_{11}+2\frac{\partial x^1}{\partial {x^{1}}&#039;}\frac{\partial x^2}{\partial {x^{1}}&#039;}S_{21}+(\frac{\partial x^2}{\partial {x^{1}}&#039;})^2 S_{22}=(y&#039;)^2 +(x&#039;)^4(y&#039;)^2which is incorrect, becaouse it should come S_{1&#039;1&#039;}=(y&#039;)^2

And all of the rest came up to be wrong, I getS_{\mu &#039;\nu &#039;=}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cc}<br /> (y&#039;)^2 +(x&#039;)^4(y&#039;)^2&amp;2(y&#039;)^2(x&#039;)^3\\2(y&#039;)^2(x&#039;)^3&amp;4(x&#039;y&#039;)^2<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right) whil it should be S_{\mu &#039;\nu &#039;=}\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cc}<br /> (y&#039;)^2&amp;x&#039;y&#039;\\x&#039;y&#039;&amp;4(x&#039;y&#039;)^2 +(x&#039;)^2<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)what am I missing?
2) metric-delta contractions

This question is about the contraction of the metric.
I know that g_{\mu\nu}g^{\mu\lambda}=\delta_{\nu}^{\lambda} where \delta_{\nu}^{\lambda} is the Kronecker delta, equal to 1 if \nu=\lambda, to 0 otherwise.

But, does it works even for \delta_{\nu\lambda} ?
I mean, it's still 0 if \nu=\lambda and to 0 otherwise?

I am pushed to say no, becaouse if I contrac the delta with the metric I get g^{\kappa\nu}\delta_{\nu\lambda}=\delta^{\kappa}_{\lambda} this tensor certainly isn't the kronecker delta (the identity matrix), but will contain some terms of the metric!

isnt'it??

Thanks for the attention!
 
Last edited:
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To answer your second question,

<br /> \delta_{\mu\nu} = g_{\mu\lambda}\delta^{\lambda}_{\nu} = g_{\mu\nu}<br />

So a delta with only lower indices IS the metric, you just give it another name.
 
Thanks a lot haushofer for your answes, to both of my posts!

now I wait for the first question...:-p
 
But (excuse me for insisting!) Gravitation (the book) and wikipedia says that the kronecker delta IS \delta_{\mu\nu}!

It is becaouse actually in this form is NOT a tensor but a normal generalized function and therefore it makes no sense to contrac it with the metric?

I mean, the kronecker deta, as a tensor, is only \delta^{\mu}_\nu and contracting with the metric gives the metric itself (like you rightfully say)
 

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