The Dangers of Smoking Cigarettes

[Moonbear]

Then tell me why certain smokers go smoke in places where they bother other people, if it is not ignorance or denial?

I guess that just leaves us with rudeness. :tongue:

 

[Polly]

Are you sure those were nicotine fags? :tongue2:

Actually they are fags and a few mouthful of cooking wine. I have a bottle of red wind from 4 years ago, but I don't have any opener...what a loser I am :grumpy: .

 

[marlon]

Then tell me why certain smokers go smoke in places where they bother other people, if it is not ignorance or denial?

EErrr, look. This question is is very good but they way you formulate it is eeuhh let's say, in the style of a 5-year old. From the beginning i said that smoking indeed can disturbe other people and if people are indeed not at easy with that they should say it AND the smoker should respect their wishes because they are entitled to smoke-free air. Non-smokers do not ask to inhale "dirty"-air so i say they are totally right. However what i find disturbing in your way of "reasoning" is the fact that you seem to imply smokers don't know about the nuisance they cause or they don't know about the heath-related riscs. This is just making apoint just for the sake of making a point. You are really saying nothing here that you can't read in a "how to behaive in public"-course for first graders. Don't turn this into a "we are good-they are bad"-discussion because that's pointless and it is not going to bring you anywhere. If somebody wants to smoke outside then there is nothing wrong with it and in all honesty i must say it really is non of your business. In public places there should be NO smoking, so if somebody does this he or she is as wrong as you are when you make such childsh statements about your boyfriend or whatever...


regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

I guess that just leaves us with rudeness. :tongue:

of the non-smokers, indeed :tongue: :tongue:

marlon

 

[Monique]

If somebody wants to smoke outside then there is nothing wrong with it and in all honesty i must say it really is non of your business. In public places there should be NO smoking, so if somebody does this he or she is as wrong as you are when you make such childsh statements about your boyfriend or whatever...

Yeah, your comments are very grown up too, right whatever.

 

[marlon]

Yeah, your comments are very grown up too, right whatever.

thanks for the mature answer. I made my point and i clearly pointed out where, according to me at least, your "reasoning" degenerates into ...


marlon

 

[Moonbear]

of the non-smokers, indeed :tongue: :tongue:

marlon

Why is it rudeness of nonsmokers? If people want to go smoke out in an open field somewhere away from other people (or really, anywhere away from other people), I have no problem with them choosing to do so, as foolish as they seem for making that choice, but when they come stand outside the entrance to my building beneath a huge "No Smoking" sign, and puff away so that I can't get inside without walking through their cloud of smoke, which leaves ME smelling like smoke all day and gives me a terrible headache, wouldn't you consider that rude or inconsiderate?

I think Monique was actually trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they don't realize how bothersome their smoke is to others when they are standing outside. From talking with ex-smokers, I think she's correct about that. I've known a number of people who have quit smoking and will walk past a smoker, or stand in the elevator next to someone who just came in from smoking, when the smell is still strong on their clothing, or walk through the entryway of a building where someone is smoking just outside the door, and will remark with surprise that they never realized how bad the smell was when they were smoking. Yes, they knew of the health risks, and most wouldn't light up in a closed room with someone they knew was a non-smoker, and wouldn't intentionally blow smoke in someone else's direction, and they thought they were being polite to step outside, but never realized that just stepping outside wasn't far enough. They pretty much thought that as far as you could see the smoke travel is as far as it went, not realizing the odor permeated much further than the visible smoke cloud around them, or how strong it was on their clothing when they came inside. Ever find yourself gasping for air around someone who seems to have bathed in their perfume? It's sort of the same thing for a nonsmoker to be around a smoker. :yuck:

 

[Monique]

But don't blame this situation of your friend on others. He is a big boy, he should have reacted himself...This is a childish argument and it is to some extent his own fault...

marlon (runs and hides)

Ok, to come back to your attack: why is it a childish argument that someone smoking outside, in front of an open door, is causing harm to a person sitting inside?

It happens, and people don't see what they're doing: I've seen it myself and I was very worried about the situation. The desk has been moved to a different location, the people have been told to not stand too close to the door, and close the door behind them. But what happens in summer? The door will be open all the time, wind will be blowing in. Time to look for another job.

 

[marlon]

Why is it rudeness of nonsmokers? If people want to go smoke out in an open field somewhere away from other people (or really, anywhere away from other people), I have no problem with them choosing to do so,

I agree

as foolish as they seem for making that choice,

Well, maybe this is your opinion and you are entitled to it but it is irrelevant to this discussion

but when they come stand outside the entrance to my building beneath a huge "No Smoking" sign, and puff away so that I can't get inside without walking through their cloud of smoke, which leaves ME smelling like smoke all day and gives me a terrible headache, wouldn't you consider that rude or inconsiderate?

I agree, you are totally right on this one. In this case, the somkers are wrong...you should be given an clean air entrance, really i agree with you on this one...

I think Monique was actually trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they don't realize how bothersome their smoke is to others when they are standing outside.

I really don't see how. To me she only made general useless statements that everybody will agree with. For example if i were to say my girlfriend got long-irritations because i smoke that you will blame me, right? That is justified in my eyes because we live together. But at work if someone blames me for that i won't take it into account because you DONNOT need to be around smokers all the time and even if so, he should have asked to be more considerate. I am sure smokers (at least most of them) will take into account such a serious effect. Just don't come whinning afterwards that it was the smoher's fault.That is childish...

From talking with ex-smokers, I think she's correct about that. I've known a number of people who have quit smoking and will walk past a smoker, or stand in the elevator next to someone who just came in from smoking, when the smell is still strong on their clothing, or walk through the entryway of a building where someone is smoking just outside the door, and will remark with surprise that they never realized how bad the smell was when they were smoking.

Indeed i have heard that too.

Yes, they knew of the health risks, and most wouldn't light up in a closed room with someone they knew was a non-smoker, and wouldn't intentionally blow smoke in someone else's direction, and they thought they were being polite to step outside, but never realized that just stepping outside wasn't far enough. They pretty much thought that as far as you could see the smoke travel is as far as it went, not realizing the odor permeated much further than the visible smoke cloud around them, or how strong it was on their clothing when they came inside.

Pfff, i am sorry but that is too much in my eyes. So, basically, if someone cannot stand some parfume or the "nice" odeur some people have, they should all be thrown out of this restaurant ? I don't think many restaurants would survive such regulations. No, really, just be more considerate as a non-smoker too. Not everything in life will be your way...

Ever find yourself gasping for air around someone who seems to have bathed in their perfume?

yes, then i just make a step aside and all is done. I am not going to start whinning about how unjust this all is...


regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

Ok, to come back to your attack:

Please, i wasn't attacking...i only do that to dextercioby when he is flying again...

why is it a childish argument that someone smoking outside, in front of an open door, is causing harm to a person sitting inside?

Nothing, in fact it is a fact. This is not what i called childish. I was referring to the examples you used and the way you formulate your statements. I made clear references to this in my previous responses to you...

AUB, ge moet daar nu niet kwaad voor zijn. Ik was gewoon een punt aan het maken. Het was niet mijn bedoeling U te beledigen...

It happens, and people don't see what they're doing: I've seen it myself and I was very worried about the situation. The desk has been moved to a different location, the people have been told to not stand too close to the door, and close the door behind them. But what happens in summer? The door will be open all the time, wind will be blowing in. Time to look for another job.

Again, i completely see your point here and i AGREE, really


marlon

 

[Monique]

How do you repel a bunch of annoying teenagers who find it necessary to start smoking, and decide to use my doorstep as a hideout? :grumpy: Everytime I come home my entrance is full of junk: sigarettes, sigarette lighters, left behind sweaters (?), wrappers, you name it, and my house smells of smoke I live on a level in between ground and first floor, so there are some stairs and a small landing.

I tried cleaning the place after them, so they would feel guilty for messing it up.. that did not work. I tried letting the place go, but that started attracting homeless people (they looked like junkies). Now I made a sign 'No smoking', so I expect when I come home tomorrow to have the entrance decorated with teenage rantings.

 

[arildno]

How do you repel a bunch of annoying teenagers who find it necessary to start smoking, and decide to use my doorstep as a hideout? :grumpy: Everytime I come home my entrance is full of junk: sigarettes, sigarette lighters, left behind sweaters (?), wrappers, you name it, and my house smells of smoke I live on a level in between ground and first floor, so there are some stairs and a small landing.

I tried cleaning the place after them, so they would feel guilty for messing it up.. that did not work. I tried letting the place go, but that started attracting homeless people (they looked like junkies). Now I made a sign 'No smoking', so I expect when I come home tomorrow to have the entrance decorated with teenage rantings.

Do you know where they live?
Dump their trash in their mailboxes or something.

 

[russ_watters]

From talking with ex-smokers, I think she's correct about that. I've known a number of people who have quit smoking and will walk past a smoker, or stand in the elevator next to someone who just came in from smoking, when the smell is still strong on their clothing, or walk through the entryway of a building where someone is smoking just outside the door, and will remark with surprise that they never realized how bad the smell was when they were smoking.

My roommate is an ex-smoker and he actually hates being around smoke than me (a never-smoker). When they smoke, they're used to the smell and barely notice it.

 

[Kerrie]

a few years ago i smoked when i lived with a roommate who also smoked. it was easy to give up because it just wasn't me. prior to pregnancy, i would have an occassional cigar if celebrating was in process!

 

[Ba]

Never smoked and really don't want too, I had a roomate that smoked and that smell got everywhere. I was glad when I moved out.

 

[brewnog]

Put me on the passive 'no' list.

 

[russ_watters]

prior to pregnancy, i would have an occassional cigar if celebrating was in process!

Yeah, me too (except for that pregnancy bit). See pic: that's me, second from the right, at a very close friend's wedding last year. My first and last full cigar.

 

[Moonbear]

Monique, are there lights on your landing? Sometimes leaving it brightly lit makes it a less desirable hiding place, or, alternatively, leaving it completely dark can also make it undesirable because they won't even see each other. Even better, pipe in horrid elevator music...apparently loud classical music has also worked to drive teenagers from loitering outside shopping malls in the US (I guess the hope is to either drive them into the stores or out of the way of people wanting to get to the stores). Periodically spilling water while watering plants on the windowsill above could work as a last resort. Get rid of them now before the weather is warm and you want to keep the windows open.

 

[Moonbear]

Yeah, me too (except for that pregnancy bit).

Well, that's a relief! You're not allowed to be a Republican if you get pregnant before you're married. :tongue2:

My first and last full cigar.

:yuck: Okay, I can tolerate people smoking cigars better than cigarettes, they have a different smell that doesn't seem as nasty, but I still would much much much prefer not to have them anywhere near me. (Sometimes a cigar is just no substitute for...:uhh:...nevermind.)

P.S. Evo, don't make us wait...I demand you release Russ' picture immediately! Hey, wait, now that you're all supermentors, can't you approve your own attachments?

 

[Monique]

Monique, are there lights on your landing? Sometimes leaving it brightly lit makes it a less desirable hiding place, or, alternatively, leaving it completely dark can also make it undesirable because they won't even see each other.

They come during the day so I haven't been home to tell them to get out. I don't know what types they are, but I wouldn't want to get a big mouth or worse :yuck: Anyway, it's 9.30 pm and I'm soaking the landing with water to give it a thorough clean in a bit

 

[Moonbear]

Piping in classical music seems to be the way to go:

Halt, or I'll play Vivaldi!

With its audience dwindling, classical music finds new cachet — as thug repellent. It can't be what Bach & Co. had in mind.

By Scott Timberg, Times Staff Writer

In the 1982 movie "Fitzcarraldo," a white-suited Klaus Kinski, playing a 19th century rubber baron, steams down a Peruvian river, blasting Caruso on his gramophone toward the damp, dark rain forest and its hostile natives. The phonograph becomes a symbol of the character's attempt to civilize the wilderness — and of his mad obsession to build an opera house in the jungle.

As odd as it sounds, this very technique has been used lately all over the English-speaking world — only not as a civilizing strategy but as a way of banishing ruffians, drug pushers and ne'er-do-wells. To clear out undesirables, opera and classical music have been piped into Canadian parks, Australian railway stations, 7-Eleven parking lots and, most recently, London Underground stops.

Continued at: http://www.calendarlive.com/cl-ca-musichurts13feb13,0,6238299.story

 

[franznietzsche]

Piping in classical music seems to be the way to go:



Continued at: http://www.calendarlive.com/cl-ca-musichurts13feb13,0,6238299.story

That's awesome.

I'll keep that in mind whenever those normal teenagers start bugging me.

 

[honestrosewater]

I agree- people who drive their cars where I want to walk and breathe are rude. And everyone who drives a car is nasty and suicidal.

 

[Monique]

Cars serve another purpose than smoking

 

[honestrosewater]

Cars serve another purpose than smoking

Smoking can serve purposes too. Anyway, driving and smoking are both dangerous and legal under certain restrictions.
I don't understand how someone can complain that some smokers are disrespectful of others and, in the same breath, say smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke inside any building other than someone's home or even come near others if doing so offends them. Smokers must respect the wants of nonsmokers, but nonsmokers needn't respect the wants of smokers? That makes sense to you?

 

[Andy]

Why should a non smoker go out of their way to accomadate the needs of a smoker?

 

[honestrosewater]

Why should a non smoker go out of their way to accomadate the needs of a smoker?

And why should a smoker go out of their way to accommodate the needs of a nonsmoker? Why should anyone go out of their way to accommodate the needs of a anyone else? I suppose one reason would be that they want to cooperate with each other. Heck, maybe they even believe people deserve to be treated fairly.

 

[russ_watters]

Smoking can serve purposes too.

Such as?

I don't understand how someone can complain that some smokers are disrespectful of others and, in the same breath, say smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke inside any building other than someone's home or even come near others if doing so offends them. Smokers must respect the wants of nonsmokers, but nonsmokers needn't respect the wants of smokers? That makes sense to you?

Um, yeah. Think about it this way: if you have 50 people in a smoking section and 50 people in a non-smoking section of a restaraunt, how many non-smokers are affected if one non-smoker goes into the smoking section? How many non-smokers are affected if one smoker goes into the non-smoking section?

If I'm hard-up for a table, sometimes I'll choose to sit in the smoking section. I choose to expose myself to smoke for the sake of getting a table. But a smoker cannot choose to sit in the non-smoking section because that circumvents the choice of the 50 people sitting in that section.

Yeah, its an inherrently unequal situation, and you're now on the short end of it (until recently, non-smokers were on the short end of it) . Sorry, but that's just too bad. That's what happens when you do something that is inherrently unhealthy and which society has deemed has no redeeming value (such as that little redeeming value that cars have...transportation).

And why should a smoker go out of their way to accommodate the needs of a nonsmoker?

Choice. Whether or not you smoke is your choice. Therefore, it is you who must make the sacrifice if you want to make that choice. Since I have no choice, your choice is not allowed to affect me. That's how rights work.

I'm sure you'll want to bring cars back into it: what if my driving a car kills a pedestrian accidentally (no drinking involved). My choice to drive, right? Yes, but its also the pedestrian's choice to be on the road.

 

[Monique]

I don't understand how someone can complain that some smokers are disrespectful of others and, in the same breath, say smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke inside any building other than someone's home or even come near others if doing so offends them.

Ok, suppose: you are sitting in a restaurant having your diner and I come and sit next to your table.

I grab into my pocket and I take out a lighter and a stick of incense, and start burning the incense in the restaurant next to the table you are sitting at. Would you suggest that you would not be bothered, and you would continue to enjoy your diner?

How about, I come into the restaurant and I sit down at the table next to you and I take out a ghetto blaster and start listening to a CD of Skunk Anansie. Again, that would be perfectly ok?

 

[Evo]

Smoking can serve purposes too. Anyway, driving and smoking are both dangerous and legal under certain restrictions.
I don't understand how someone can complain that some smokers are disrespectful of others and, in the same breath, say smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke inside any building other than someone's home or even come near others if doing so offends them. Smokers must respect the wants of nonsmokers, but nonsmokers needn't respect the wants of smokers? That makes sense to you?

Yes, that makes perfect sense. It's because smoking isn't necessary, it's a nasty, foul smelling practice that affects everyone near them. Because it affects other people, the smoker needs to make sure that they do not affect others that don't wish to breath smoke. If a person can't sit through a meal without smoking, they have a very serious problem. Smokers should not impose their problems on others.

I tell you what, I'll let someone smoke next to me as long as I can keep spraying Lysol at them. Hey, it's my right to get a couple of cans and spray them non stop in the face the whole time their smoke is in my face, right?

 

[Monique]

I tell you what, I'll let someone smoke next to me as long as I can keep spraying Lysol at them. Hey, it's my right to get a couple of cans and spray them non stop in the face the whole time their smoke is in my face, right?

:rofl: yeah, I've thought that that before too, lol

 

[Andy]

Sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[juvenal]

Smoking can serve purposes too. Anyway, driving and smoking are both dangerous and legal under certain restrictions.
I don't understand how someone can complain that some smokers are disrespectful of others and, in the same breath, say smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke inside any building other than someone's home or even come near others if doing so offends them. Smokers must respect the wants of nonsmokers, but nonsmokers needn't respect the wants of smokers? That makes sense to you?

Smoking actually works better in some cases than caffeine in keeping you awake when you're driving. I don't know why - but it really works. If you find yourself having to drive from point A to point B and you're dead tired - smoke a cigarette or two - it may save your life. I'm serious. (Yes - I know- pull over to the side of the road, take a nap, blah, blah, blah).

 

[Moonbear]

I'm sure you'll want to bring cars back into it: what if my driving a car kills a pedestrian accidentally (no drinking involved). My choice to drive, right? Yes, but its also the pedestrian's choice to be on the road.

I'll even take this a step further. If that driver swerves onto the sidewalk, where pedestrians have every reason to expect they will be safe to walk without being in the middle of car traffic, then that driver is held responsible for every injury or death he/she causes.

If someone is sitting in a non-smoking section, where the non-smokers have every reason to expect they will be in a smoke-free environment, and a smoker walks in and lights a cigarette, do you see them taking any responsibility of ensuring they will cover the medical bills of any non-smoker who now develops a smoking related illness? What do you do for the asthmatic who spends the rest of their evening at the hospital because they were exposed to smoke where they had every reason to expect they had chosen a smoke-free place to visit?

If I walk up to an establishment that offers no non-smoking section, and clearly is a venue where smoking occurs (such as a bar), I do not ask the smokers to accommodate me, I make my choice to not enter that establishment. If I do choose to enter, I know what to expect and can't complain about the environment. On the other hand, if an establishment clearly states "No Smoking" at the entrance, I fully expect the smokers to make the same decision upon entering. They can either choose to enter anyway and abide by the no smoking policy, or they can choose to leave and find someplace that permits them to smoke.

In Monique's case, this is her home. She's not telling people not to smoke in their own entryway, but is asking them not to smoke in her own entryway, so that her non-smoking home doesn't stink of smoke. It would be no different if I stood at the doorway to your home and decided I really needed to spray myself with copious amounts of some cheap perfume so that the perfume odor began to coat your entryway and permeate into your house. You would have every right to ask me to stop spraying perfume or to ask me to leave (or even have me forcibly removed for trespassing if I persisted despite you making it clear I was not welcome; if you are not home when I am doing this, a large sign stating so would suffice, which is what Monique has done by posting a No Smoking sign).

Not only are they standing there to smoke, they are littering her property with cigarette butts and other trash. If you're going to smoke outdoors, don't litter the streets with your cigarette butts. Find a proper place to dispose of your trash.

 

[brewnog]

Smoking actually works better in some cases than caffeine in keeping you awake when you're driving. I don't know why - but it really works.

Yes, but I was almost run into once by some woman while she tried to smoke, talk on her mobile and apply lipstick simultaneously whilst driving.

Having a stick of tobacco burning at 700 Celcius whilst driving is a distraction, I wish anyone guilty of this the joy of crashing into a tree.