Smoking Cigarettes 40 Yrs | No Harm Reported

[Ryan_m_b]

I go to a local smoke shop with friends sometimes to watch various sporting events or hang out and enjoy a cigar. Very rarely, but when I do, the owner of the shop is allowed to provide couches, chairs, cigars, lighters, but cannot give us food or drink.

We have to order pizza and bring our own beer.

I just think it's absurd.

Yes that specific scenario does sound absurd. But there would have to be a blanket rule otherwise you create loopholes. If I was a publican/restaurant owner and I found out that tobacconists could sell food I would get my premises reclassified as a tobacconists. I can't find a link at the moment but last year there was a pub that managed to get itself classified as a research establishment so that people could smoke.

I don't see that a ban could practically be anything but an all or nothing thing.

EDIT: Maybe they should be forced to post their discriminatory practice in giant letters, or something. Compulsory disclosure is always a great law! I wonder how quickly they would be picketed or go out of business. And with no government intervention necessary other than to force full disclosure of their discriminatory practice.

OK, I think the fundamental thing we disagree on here is that I don't put that much stock in market forces fixing everything. It's easier if we just have a democratically elected government that can dispense the law. I don't think it is perfect, but it's better.

 

[FlexGunship]

Yes that specific scenario does sound absurd. But there would have to be a blanket rule otherwise you create loopholes. If I was a publican/restaurant owner and I found out that tobacconists could sell food I would get my premises reclassified as a tobacconists. I can't find a link at the moment but last year there was a pub that managed to get itself classified as a research establishment so that people could smoke.

I don't see that a ban could practically be anything but an all or nothing thing.

See, I agree with you, but I come to the opposite conclusion. That's the fundamental problem with social engineering laws; there's always an exception OR a loophole. If you just avoided the problem entirely and said: "hey, do what you want." Folks like me would get the best of both worlds, restaurants that are smoke free next smoky sports bars. If the market chose a specific one... well, all the better ("Sorry, Flex, we're not making any money with all this smoke here... we're a smoke-free establishment now").

 

[Ryan_m_b]

See, I agree with you, but I come to the opposite conclusion. That's the fundamental problem with social engineering laws; there's always an exception OR a loophole. If you just avoided the problem entirely and said: "hey, do what you want." Folks like me would get the best of both worlds, restaurants that are smoke free next smoky sports bars. If the market chose a specific one... well, all the better ("Sorry, Flex, we're not making any money with all this smoke here... we're a smoke-free establishment now").

See above /\

OK, I think the fundamental thing we disagree on here is that I don't put that much stock in market forces fixing everything. It's easier if we just have a democratically elected government that can dispense the law. I don't think it is perfect, but it's better.

The problem with your system for me is that I don't believe it works in all cases. For example; before the ban in the UK any pub could go smoke free but they didn't (curious considering there was huge public desire for a place to go and not have to be in smoke). Consequently if I wanted to go for a drink I have no choice but to go to one that has smoking. So my choice is a) don't drink or b) go to a smoky pub. People en mass won't just flock away from a place even if one pub set up a non smoking policy. That is, I believe, one of the naive assumptions about market forces; that the needs and wants of the consumer will always be satisfied because if there is a niche a business will start up.

Secondly it changes the situation from democratic to fiscal voting. The more money you have the more say you get in your local environment. Under your system I could wander into a bar and drink and smoke all day paying the barman outlandish tips that make me and the five other rich smokers worth more than ninety five average customers.

These are somewhat silly examples but the illustrate my point.

EDIT: we may be in risk of derailing the thread here...

 

[turbo]

I smoked heavily for a semester in engineering school(Lucky Strikes and Ovals), and then got bronchitis and mono back-to-back, losing weeks of class. I still managed to finish with a decent GPA, though I don't know how. When I felt well enough to go to the dining hall (instead of asking friends to bring me some food), I had a good breakfast and tried to follow up with a cup of black coffee and a cigarette. I made it outside and hurled. That was my last butt.

 

[FlexGunship]

EDIT: we may be in risk of derailing the thread here...

Yup, I'm done. Carried to PM. Thanks, all, for the indulgence.

 

[turbo]

BTW, when I became unable to fly due to respiratory problems caused by fragrance chemicals, I ended up taking jobs locally, and I hosted open-mic jams at a couple of different pubs for extra money. People smoked in bars then, and that was not a problem. I could function, play, sing, etc with no troubles. I gave up that moonlight job after a former co-worker of my wife came to a show with her boyfriend, and they about put me in the ER with their perfumes. Too bad. Those jobs were worth up to $250/weekend for maybe 6 hours of work total, doing something I loved to do.

 

[FlexGunship]

BTW, when I became unable to fly due to respiratory problems caused by fragrance chemicals, I ended up taking jobs locally, and I hosted open-mic jams at a couple of different pubs for extra money. People smoked in bars then, and that was not a problem. I could function, play, sing, etc with no troubles. I gave up that moonlight job after a former co-worker of my wife came to a show with her boyfriend, and they about put me in the ER with their perfumes. Too bad. Those jobs were worth up to $250/weekend for maybe 6 hours of work total, doing something I loved to do.

Wear a respirator! That would've been so awesome! It would've been your "thing."

 

[turbo]

Wear a respirator! That would've been so awesome! It would've been your "thing."

Normal respirators don't stop VOCs. Plus, it would have been hard to sing into a mic properly with all that hardware in the way. Still, the smoke never bothered me. I came home smelling like a bar, but I had MONEY. $125 for 3 hour's work in the 80's wasn't a bad wage. Smoke still doesn't bother me, but if your clothes are saturated with Bounce, Downy, etc, stay away! I'll be sick for days if I have to be anywhere near you.

 

[Oltz]

See above /\

The problem with your system for me is that I don't believe it works in all cases. For example; before the ban in the UK any pub could go smoke free but they didn't (curious considering there was huge public desire for a place to go and not have to be in smoke). Consequently if I wanted to go for a drink I have no choice but to go to one that has smoking. So my choice is a) don't drink or b) go to a smoky pub. People en mass won't just flock away from a place even if one pub set up a non smoking policy. That is, I believe, one of the naive assumptions about market forces; that the needs and wants of the consumer will always be satisfied because if there is a niche a business will start up.

Secondly it changes the situation from democratic to fiscal voting. The more money you have the more say you get in your local environment. Under your system I could wander into a bar and drink and smoke all day paying the barman outlandish tips that make me and the five other rich smokers worth more than ninety five average customers.

These are somewhat silly examples but the illustrate my point.

EDIT: we may be in risk of derailing the thread here...

Ahh but there is the issue A ton of NON smokers "only smoke when I drink" hence bars always being smokey even tho you could ask adozen poepl smoking in the pub if they were smokers and half would say no.

The ones who wanted the ban were the ones not going to the bar and not going regularly enough to keep a smoke free bar in bussiness. The regulars and the every friday night crowd were all for smoke.

The Majority of the population was against smoke in the pub but the majority of pub patrons were for it. Where I am in the US nearly every restaurant was smoke freee 2 years before there was ever a ban and that was due to market forcing.

Bars and bowling alleys and other type places remained smoke friendly. Bowling alleys typically had a family day with no smoking and a 4 hour period on the weekend in the afternoon for childrens parties and what not with no smoke or Beer.

My favorite work around was in NC they called the bar a private club charged you a dollar and gave you a membership card then it could be smoking even after the ban as it was a private establishment. The normal bussiness doubled after the ban.

 

[Gokul43201]

Yup, I'm done. Carried to PM. Thanks, all, for the indulgence.

FWIW, I'm with you on this (ugh, did I just perform a re-railment?), and like you, I do not smoke, and do not like being in smoky places.

 

[jtbell]

Or people around you,

My father smoked for about 35 years, then quit when I was a kid. Another 32 years later he died of lung cancer. Of course, it couldn't be proven that the cancer was a delayed effect of his old smoking habit, but we figured that was probably the case.

 

[khemist]

Both my grandparents on my mom's side smoked. My granddad smoked until he got pneumonia, where he was hospitalized and decided to stop (I think this was in his 30s). My grandma smoked for probably 30-40 years, and towards the end of these years she was pretty much smoking all the time. Then, she had to get quintuple bypass surgery and that was the end of her smoking...

 

[Evo]

I go to a local smoke shop with friends sometimes to watch various sporting events or hang out and enjoy a cigar. Very rarely, but when I do, the owner of the shop is allowed to provide couches, chairs, cigars, lighters, but cannot give us food or drink.

We have to order pizza and bring our own beer.

I just think it's absurd.

Gee, could it be that he's not licensed to sell food?

 

[drizzle]

You don't want to smoke with ME around. I don't talk or bug smokers, I just start acting like I'm being suffocated.

Sadly, a family member is a bad smoker, and just like the OP's case for 40+ yrs :(

 

[Adyssa]

I can safely say that smoking has harmed me. I'm 30, smoked since I was about 15, been through heavy stages and not so heavy stages and I currently pack away about 5 a day so definitely on the lighter end of the scale these days.

I used to be amazingly fit, I ran (athletics) when I was younger, but that's all behind me now. My lung capacity is pathetic. I hit a big hill on my cross country bike and I pretty much roll over and die for 5+ minutes when I hit the top.

I always said I would quit before I turned 30. I'd like to think I can before I hit 31. I usually smoke less in summer due to hot weather.

:S

 

[Loren Booda]

After smoking pot heavily for 12 years (ages 13-25), I developed a susceptibility to bronchitis, and debilitating psychoses.

 

[mathwonk]

you are in deep denial. it has taken probably 7-8 years off your life expectancy already.

take a look at an autopsy of the lungs of a lifetime smoker. they are shriveled like a burnt out building.

(I smoked heavily for 15 years or so and lightly for another 20. I have chronic breathing problems even after quitting for 20 years.)

I cut way down at age 35, almost stopping completely, after reading the stats on heart disease. I read that the leading cause of heart attack is genetic, and the second leading cause is smoking. I thought: well my dad died of a heart attack, so i can't do anything about that, but I would be really dumb not to stop smoking.

Look in the mirror friend, and quit kidding yourself. Not to mention you may kill your wife or child from second hand smoke. The saddest ad I saw on tv about this was the old guy who said: "I told my wife, 'it's my life', but it wasn't my life that was lost, it was hers".

quitting smoking is one of the hardest things in the world. The first step is to stop lying to yourself as you are now. The fact you are still doing that after all that is known, is evidence of what a strong hold the addiction has on you. But your asking this question suggests that you feel you need help. That's a small but good beginning.

Start now, it took me 5 years after quitting before I stopped reaching in my pocket for a smoke. good luck with this.

 

[DoggerDan]

Or people around you, i have been smoking cigarettes for over 40 yrs without any sign of harm.

Yes.

I don't believe you.

Well, now, let's examine the facts. One stands a 1 in 500 chance of dying of lung cancer if they never smoke, and a 1 in 3 chance if they smoke their entire lives. For the latter group, by the time "sign of harm" appears, it's often too late, so wolram may be in a false sense of security.

I smoke a couple of cigs in grade school, then a couple more about six or seven years back. Both times, yuck! What was I thinking?

I'm a cyclist. Smoking and cycling DO NOT MIX. In fact, any aerobic sport (or any other effort towards better health) and smoking are at odds with one another.

As for my youth, I grew up with parents who smoked. Yes, that affected me, with wrongly diagnosed "asthma" that disappeared a year after I moved out. Kept me out of a better job, dang it.