The doppler effect on light (red and blue shifts)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Doppler effect as it applies to light, specifically addressing the implications for individual photons in terms of energy changes during redshift and blueshift. Participants explore the relationship between the observer's motion and the perceived energy of photons, as well as the conceptual differences between classical objects and light waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what the Doppler effect means for an individual photon, particularly regarding energy changes during blueshift.
  • One participant explains that the Doppler effect is dependent on the observer's point of view, noting that different observers in relative motion will perceive different shifts in light frequency and energy.
  • Another participant asserts that photons do indeed have more energy when they are blueshifted from a lower frequency, agreeing with the initial inquiry.
  • A participant challenges the analogy of a baseball to explain energy transfer, emphasizing that while the baseball's energy transfer depends on relative speed, light always travels at the speed of light (c) and its energy is affected by the Doppler shift.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the analogy of classical objects versus light in the context of energy transfer, indicating a lack of consensus on the best way to conceptualize the Doppler effect for photons.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of energy transfer and the behavior of light versus classical objects remain unresolved, particularly in the context of how observers perceive energy changes.

kashiark
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what does the doppler effect mean for an individual photon? for instance in a blue shift do the photons actually have more energy if they were originally a lower frequency?
 
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The doppler effect is only true for the observer and it's point of view. Let's say that a red light photon is observed by a standing observer. A different observer that is in relative motion from the first one in the direction of the light source will observe a slightly blueshifted light, a more energetical ray ( orange yellow green etc ) in accordance with it's speed relative to the "red light standing observer". If the second observer were to move along the direction of the light he would see a less energetical ray ( infrared microwave etc). It's not a complicated thing to understand, because it all comes down to the energy that can e extracted from a wave particle system.

A baseball flying towards you would transfer a certain amount of energy if it hits you. if you move towards it you will receive more energy if you move along it's direction you will receive less.

Let's say a highly energetic particle is moving towards the earth. From our point of view that particle has a fixed amount of energy and a fixed speed. The particle on the other hand would see a object of huge mass traveling close to the speed of light towards it. There is no point in finding out what energy our Earth would have if it was traveling at near light speed, because the particle would never be able to extract more energy than it itself has, out of the system. Photons are energy waves so they will change in accordance with the system of observation, their wavelength that is.
 
kashiark said:
what does the doppler effect mean for an individual photon? for instance in a blue shift do the photons actually have more energy if they were originally a lower frequency?
The answer to your question is yes.
 
thanks guys :biggrin:
 
Lok said:
A baseball flying towards you would transfer a certain amount of energy if it hits you. if you move towards it you will receive more energy if you move along it's direction you will receive less.

I think that is misleading. The ball transfers more or less energy to you because its speed relative to you at impact is higher or lower. that is no true for light, it always hits you at c, but it has more or less energy because of the doppler shift.
 

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