The Great Loch Ness Debate 2003

[Ivan Seeking]

Main Question or Discussion Point

As I have said in the past, I am reasonably convinced that most sightings can be identified as sturgeon. This leaves rather few absolute descriptions of the alleged beast [close encounters] by which to judge; in addition to a lack of any supporting scientific evidence. I remain just slightly open to but mostly dubious of this claim. My only hold out is that any underwater beast might hide whenever dozens of large boats simultaneously cross the lake in concert. So, I think that it is just slightly possible that the spirit of Heisenberg may haunt this effort to find the thing. Also, perhaps such a animal could detect [hear] sonar. This may also thwart the effort.

The Loch Ness monster is one of the most enduring mysteries of the modern age. Certainly nothing else in contemporary zoology engenders quite the amount of controversy as does the question of whether or not there is a giant undiscovered creature lurking in the depths of Scotland’s largest lake.

http://www.forteanzoology.com/lochness/#

 

[zoobyshoe]

Check this out (Picture)

http://www.worldstar.com/~dlarson/html/welcome.html

-zoob

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Check this out (Picture)

http://www.worldstar.com/~dlarson/html/welcome.html

-zoob

About 20 years ago some [idiot?] woman with a gun shot at a beast spotted by at least a dozen people at the Loch. This was considered a major sighting. A day or two later, lying on the bank and not far from the location of the sighting, they found a huge, dead sturgeon. There was also a bullet hole in the fish. Nearly all available videos of significant resolution show what appears as a "long smooth neck". I think your picture pretty much explains this.

 

[zoobyshoe]

A couple years ago one of Art
Bell's guests gave a novel
explanation for Nessie, which is
that she was the ghost of a
prehistoric sea creature. This
explains why she eludes sonar
and generally leaves no traces to
be found.

So I wondered why is it only sea
creatures have ghosts? Why don't
people see a triceratops grazing
in the back yard now and then?

And when's the last time the
police were called to investigate
that pesky wooley mammoth spirit
that's been scaring the tourists
at Yosemite?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
About 20 years ago some [idiot?] woman with a gun shot at a beast spotted by at least a dozen people at the Loch. This was considered a major sighting. A day or two later, they found a huge, dead sturgeon laying on the bank, not far from the location of the sighting. There was a bullet hole in the fish.

Nay, laddie, it dint happn here
at t'loch.

I am pretty sure that incident
was in one of the North American
lakes claiming to have a monster.
I saw this on Discovery Channel,
or one of the channels like that.
It was a very well done look at
the lake monster issue. About a
year ago, it aired.

They actually interviewed the
assassin and she shot at it out
of fear, as I recall, not trying
to bag a trophy or for sport. I
am relying on memory for this so
I could be mixed up.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
A couple years ago one of Art
Bell's guests gave a novel
explanation for Nessie, which is
that she was the ghost of a
prehistoric sea creature. This
explains why she eludes sonar
and generally leaves no traces to
be found.

So I wondered why is it only sea
creatures have ghosts? Why don't
people see a triceratops grazing
in the back yard now and then?

And when's the last time the
police were called to investigate
that pesky wooley mammoth spirit
that's been scaring the tourists
at Yosemite?

Hee hee hee. Ya, I am always running into the ghosts of all of my garden slugs also.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
Hee hee hee. Ya, I am always running into the ghosts of all of my garden slugs also.

I hate when that happens. Slug
ectoplasm is the worst!

 

[zoobyshoe]

Nessie and her sisters around the
world never struck me as the least
bit unlikely, per se. As long as
you don't make the claim she is
a prehistoric holdover.

The original modern sighting, he
couple who saw it cross the road
in front of their car in the 1930s
described it as only six feet
long!

The next guy who saw it crossing
the road while he was on his
motorcycle said it looked to be
about 20 feet long.

Why did the loch ness monster
cross the road? No one knows why
but whatever the reason it only
took two trips because I don't
think there are any other reports
of it out of the water.

Was the first one a baby and the
second it's parent? In other
words: population?

At any rate these original out of
water sightings are worth a mil-
lion sightings of things in the water given the mirage factor and
difficulty making out rogue waves
at a distance.

I don't know what crossed the road
but I don't suspect it was a
sturgeon.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Nessie and her sisters around the
world never struck me as the least
bit unlikely, per se. As long as
you don't make the claim she is
a prehistoric holdover.

The original modern sighting, he
couple who saw it cross the road
in front of their car in the 1930s
described it as only six feet
long!

The next guy who saw it crossing
the road while he was on his
motorcycle said it looked to be
about 20 feet long.

Why did the loch ness monster
cross the road? No one knows why
but whatever the reason it only
took two trips because I don't
think there are any other reports
of it out of the water.

Was the first one a baby and the
second it's parent? In other
words: population?

At any rate these original out of
water sightings are worth a mil-
lion sightings of things in the water given the mirage factor and
difficulty making out rogue waves
at a distance.

I don't know what crossed the road
but I don't suspect it was a
sturgeon.

There is also the problem that, as I understand the claims, all lake monsters reports are found at about 45 degrees latitude - the horse latitudes; in deep, land locked lakes. This is a rather striking coincidence if true. Perhaps deep, land locked lakes are only found around the 45th parallel? I could imagine that we need a large, deep lake for monster myths to evolve. But then we have swamp monster myths also. Of course, this also involves an abyss for mystery.

As far as the sightings, a handful of anecdotal reports is getting pretty thin on logical evidence...even for me. I would tend to expect many more reports considering the interest. Perhaps a review of the local fauna would yield some other suspects.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Nay, laddie, it dint happn here
at t'loch.

I am pretty sure that incident
was in one of the North American
lakes claiming to have a monster.
I saw this on Discovery Channel,
or one of the channels like that.
It was a very well done look at
the lake monster issue. About a
year ago, it aired.

They actually interviewed the
assassin and she shot at it out
of fear, as I recall, not trying
to bag a trophy or for sport. I
am relying on memory for this so
I could be mixed up.

Uh oh. I don't think so but I have actually make a mistake before.

I remember specifically wondering about the use of guns around the Loch. I didn't think this was legal. This surprised me. I also remember that the original interview with the shootess was grainy; like the old super 8 stuff. Dunno. I was quite convinced at the time. I saw this at least 8 or 9 years ago I think on the orignal In Search Of.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
As far as the sightings, a handful of anecdotal reports is getting pretty thin on logical evidence...even for me.

Zooby's first law of Crypto-
zoology states: If three people
claim to have seen it, it's real.
There they are now,
watching nessie cross the road.

The thing about the first sighting is that they said it had a long neck. At first, since they said
it was six feet long, I would
have guessed it was an otter that
was actually four feet long. It's
the long neck I can't fit onto
a reasonable animal.

So lets say they saw something
normal, like an otter, but for
some optical reason it looked to
have a long neck. The guy on the
motorcycle was lying, to get
attention using their story as
a springboard. Debunked. We're all
done here.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
I remember specifically wondering about the use of guns around the Loch. I didn't think this was legal. This surprised me.

Actually, in Scotland anyone can
shoot anyone they want. No one
cares.

I also remember that the original interview with the shootess was grainy; like the old super 8 stuff. Dunno. I was quite convinced at the time. I saw this at least 8 or 9 years ago I think on the orignal In Search Of.

Yes, in the show I saw, the inter-
view was recent, not the original,
as it were, she looked to be about
60-65.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Actually, in Scotland anyone can
shoot anyone they want. No one
cares.

I used to hang out with a guy from Scotland.
I should have known this.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
They actually interviewed the
assassin and she shot at it out
of fear, as I recall, not trying
to bag a trophy or for sport. I
am relying on memory for this so
I could be mixed up.

Again this doesn't sound like the same story. This gal was real enthusiastic. I was outraged at the stupidity since this was completely unnecessary. Imagine killing the only remaining animal of its kind because you want to be a big shot.

Um, duh! Unless I'm mistaken, don't they speak Scottish in Scotland? I don't think I would have confused this point. I'm sticking with my story. I think we may have two separate incidents...though it does seem unlikely.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
Again this doesn't sound like the same story. This gal was real enthusiastic. I was outraged at the stupidity since this was completely unnecessary. Imagine killing the only remaining animal of its kind because you want to be a big shot.

Now what are the chances of two
separate women shooting at two
separate lake monsters in two
separate lakes both of whose
stories end with the discovery of
a dead sturgeon by a third party
a couple days later? It's the
same story. One, or both, of us
is just getting the other parts
mixed up.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Now what are the chances of two
separate women shooting at two
separate lake monsters in two
separate lakes both of whose
stories end with the discovery of
a dead sturgeon by a third party
a couple days later? It's the
same story. One, or both, of us
is just getting the other parts
mixed up.

Ya I know. It does get a little too specific. I was assuming that some varations in these stories may account for this. Perhaps one or both of us is mistating part of the story. I could be confusing two different stories I suppose. Also, you didn't mention the dead fish. This is hard to buy.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
Um, duh! Unless I'm mistaken, don't they speak Scottish in Scotland?

Only English except for in your
scattered Zulu enclaves.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Only English except for in your
scattered Zulu enclaves.

What? I laughed...at least I was laughing in my mind.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Now what are the chances of two
separate women shooting at two
separate lake monsters in two
separate lakes both of whose
stories end with the discovery of
a dead sturgeon by a third party
a couple days later? It's the
same story. One, or both, of us
is just getting the other parts
mixed up.

I don'y know about that... There are a lot of women craving sturgeons out there

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Guybrush Threepwood
I don'y know about that... There are a lot of women craving sturgeons out there

Did you mean
women who crave sturgeon
or
sturgeon who crave women?

 

[zoobyshoe]

This just in from Reuters:

Women-Craving Sturgeon Crosses Road Near Loch Ness

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

LOL, anyway...

I've seen on Discovery this weekend a show about some professor who studied the ecosystem of the lake for a few years and didn't find anything BIG in there...
I'll look on Discovery site when I got the time to try to get the link for all you Nessie fans out there....

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Guybrush Threepwood
I'll look on Discovery site when I got the time to try to get the link for all you Nessie fans out there....

There is, or at least used to be,
a site that had a "Nessie Cam": a
24 hour camera aimed generally at
Loch Ness that you could check out whenever you wondered if Nessie were up and about. I went to it once or twice, got very bored.