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The Great Loch Ness Debate 2003

  1. Sep 18, 2003 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    As I have said in the past, I am reasonably convinced that most sightings can be identified as sturgeon. This leaves rather few absolute descriptions of the alleged beast [close encounters] by which to judge; in addition to a lack of any supporting scientific evidence. I remain just slightly open to but mostly dubious of this claim. My only hold out is that any underwater beast might hide whenever dozens of large boats simultaneously cross the lake in concert. So, I think that it is just slightly possible that the spirit of Heisenberg may haunt this effort to find the thing. Also, perhaps such a animal could detect [hear] sonar. This may also thwart the effort.

    http://www.forteanzoology.com/lochness/#
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2003
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 18, 2003 #2
  4. Sep 18, 2003 #3

    Ivan Seeking

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    About 20 years ago some [idiot?] woman with a gun shot at a beast spotted by at least a dozen people at the Loch. This was considered a major sighting. A day or two later, lying on the bank and not far from the location of the sighting, they found a huge, dead sturgeon. There was also a bullet hole in the fish. Nearly all available videos of significant resolution show what appears as a "long smooth neck". I think your picture pretty much explains this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2003
  5. Sep 18, 2003 #4
    A couple years ago one of Art
    Bell's guests gave a novel
    explanation for Nessie, which is
    that she was the ghost of a
    prehistoric sea creature. This
    explains why she eludes sonar
    and generally leaves no traces to
    be found.

    So I wondered why is it only sea
    creatures have ghosts? Why don't
    people see a triceratops grazing
    in the back yard now and then?

    And when's the last time the
    police were called to investigate
    that pesky wooley mammoth spirit
    that's been scaring the tourists
    at Yosemite?
     
  6. Sep 18, 2003 #5
    Nay, laddie, it dint happn here
    at t'loch.

    I am pretty sure that incident
    was in one of the North American
    lakes claiming to have a monster.
    I saw this on Discovery Channel,
    or one of the channels like that.
    It was a very well done look at
    the lake monster issue. About a
    year ago, it aired.

    They actually interviewed the
    assassin and she shot at it out
    of fear, as I recall, not trying
    to bag a trophy or for sport. I
    am relying on memory for this so
    I could be mixed up.
     
  7. Sep 18, 2003 #6

    Ivan Seeking

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    Hee hee hee. Ya, I am always running into the ghosts of all of my garden slugs also.
     
  8. Sep 18, 2003 #7
    I hate when that happens. Slug
    ectoplasm is the worst!
     
  9. Sep 18, 2003 #8
    Nessie and her sisters around the
    world never struck me as the least
    bit unlikely, per se. As long as
    you don't make the claim she is
    a prehistoric holdover.

    The original modern sighting, he
    couple who saw it cross the road
    in front of their car in the 1930s
    described it as only six feet
    long!

    The next guy who saw it crossing
    the road while he was on his
    motorcycle said it looked to be
    about 20 feet long.

    Why did the loch ness monster
    cross the road? No one knows why
    but whatever the reason it only
    took two trips because I don't
    think there are any other reports
    of it out of the water.

    Was the first one a baby and the
    second it's parent? In other
    words: population?

    At any rate these original out of
    water sightings are worth a mil-
    lion sightings of things in the water given the mirage factor and
    difficulty making out rogue waves
    at a distance.

    I don't know what crossed the road
    but I don't suspect it was a
    sturgeon.
     
  10. Sep 18, 2003 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    There is also the problem that, as I understand the claims, all lake monsters reports are found at about 45 degrees latitude - the horse latitudes; in deep, land locked lakes. This is a rather striking coincidence if true. Perhaps deep, land locked lakes are only found around the 45th parallel? I could imagine that we need a large, deep lake for monster myths to evolve. But then we have swamp monster myths also. Of course, this also involves an abyss for mystery.

    As far as the sightings, a handful of anecdotal reports is getting pretty thin on logical evidence...even for me. I would tend to expect many more reports considering the interest. Perhaps a review of the local fauna would yield some other suspects.
     
  11. Sep 18, 2003 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    Uh oh. I don't think so but I have actually make a mistake before.

    I remember specifically wondering about the use of guns around the Loch. I didn't think this was legal. This surprised me. I also remember that the original interview with the shootess was grainy; like the old super 8 stuff. Dunno. I was quite convinced at the time. I saw this at least 8 or 9 years ago I think on the orignal In Search Of.
     
  12. Sep 18, 2003 #11
    Zooby's first law of Crypto-
    zoology states: If three people
    claim to have seen it, it's real.
    There they are now,
    watching nessie cross the road.

    The thing about the first sighting is that they said it had a long neck. At first, since they said
    it was six feet long, I would
    have guessed it was an otter that
    was actually four feet long. It's
    the long neck I can't fit onto
    a reasonable animal.

    So lets say they saw something
    normal, like an otter, but for
    some optical reason it looked to
    have a long neck. The guy on the
    motorcycle was lying, to get
    attention using their story as
    a springboard. Debunked. We're all
    done here.
     
  13. Sep 18, 2003 #12
    Actually, in Scotland anyone can
    shoot anyone they want. No one
    cares.

    Yes, in the show I saw, the inter-
    view was recent, not the original,
    as it were, she looked to be about
    60-65.
     
  14. Sep 18, 2003 #13

    Ivan Seeking

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    I used to hang out with a guy from Scotland.
    I should have known this.
     
  15. Sep 18, 2003 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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    Again this doesn't sound like the same story. This gal was real enthusiastic. I was outraged at the stupidity since this was completely unnecessary. Imagine killing the only remaining animal of its kind because you want to be a big shot.

    Um, duh! Unless I'm mistaken, don't they speak Scottish in Scotland? I don't think I would have confused this point. I'm sticking with my story. I think we may have two separate incidents...though it does seem unlikely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2003
  16. Sep 18, 2003 #15
    Now what are the chances of two
    separate women shooting at two
    separate lake monsters in two
    separate lakes both of whose
    stories end with the discovery of
    a dead sturgeon by a third party
    a couple days later? It's the
    same story. One, or both, of us
    is just getting the other parts
    mixed up.
     
  17. Sep 18, 2003 #16

    Ivan Seeking

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    Ya I know. It does get a little too specific. I was assuming that some varations in these stories may account for this. Perhaps one or both of us is mistating part of the story. I could be confusing two different stories I suppose. Also, you didn't mention the dead fish. This is hard to buy.
     
  18. Sep 18, 2003 #17
    Only English except for in your
    scattered Zulu enclaves.
     
  19. Sep 19, 2003 #18

    Ivan Seeking

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    What? I laughed...at least I was laughing in my mind.
     
  20. Sep 19, 2003 #19
    I don'y know about that... There are a lot of women craving sturgeons out there
     
  21. Sep 20, 2003 #20

    Ivan Seeking

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    Did you mean
    women who crave sturgeon
    or
    sturgeon who crave women?
     
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