The island is big and wooded in parts, How do they survive?

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Moonbear

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brewnog said:
If you can do the skinning, I can do the tanning. I tried to skin a rabbit once, found it very difficult. I know how to skin a deer properly, but I'm sure it might be more tricky in real life.
Deer should be easier than rabbit since rabbits have much thinner skin. I can't promise perfection, but we're not planning on using them for decoration, so if I cut through in a place or two, I'm sure we could sew it back together or use that one for cutting into smaller strips for ties and such. With more practice, I'll get better at it.

Okay, though, if I need to start extracting tannins from vegetation, I'm going to need some sort of kettle I can boil water in over the fire, and something to pick up the kettle with (we'll also need a container that we can pour this stuff into after it's boiled...I'll need that kettle for cooking your soup too). Anything in that plane wreckage that looks kettle-like? Maybe a metal helmet? I'd prefer something larger, or you're all going to have to eat your soup in shifts, but I'll make do with whatever you can provide me.
 

brewnog

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Indeed, regarding the bomber there are lots of treasure items we'd look for.

Fuel, and explosives need to be handled and stored carefully, but are potentially very useful. Ammo would probably be more useful to us as a means of starting fire, and signalling, than as weapons. As Moonbear said, tools and glass would be looked out for.

Personally, I'd like to polish up some of the sheet metal to make signalling devices, but I'd also like to use some of it to make some small sailing vessels which would be ideal for fishing.

And rip out all the hydraulic piping, and make a massive still, to distill, urrrm, seawater! *looks around, then fills up still with the secret stash of grain alcohol which me and Astro have been brewing since we arrived!*
 

wolram

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Moonbear said:
Okay, though, if I need to start extracting tannins from vegetation, I'm going to need some sort of kettle I can boil water in over the fire, and something to pick up the kettle with (we'll also need a container that we can pour this stuff into after it's boiled...I'll need that kettle for cooking your soup too). Anything in that plane wreckage that looks kettle-like? Maybe a metal helmet? I'd prefer something larger, or you're all going to have to eat your soup in shifts, but I'll make do with whatever you can provide me.
Sorry everyone, but the biggest pieces of AP are about two meters, lots of
Ally though, to make pots etc out of, lots of pexi glass, copper wire, it looks
like they jettisoned any thing not bolted down, the engines have all sorts of
pipe work and i have found some live ammo.
 

brewnog

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wolram said:
lots of Ally though, the engines have all sorts of pipe work
So Integral can have his GT motorbike after all?
 

Astronuc

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wolram said:
Ally though, to make pots etc out of, lots of pexi glass, copper wire, it looks
like they jettisoned any thing not bolted down, the engines have all sorts of
pipe work and i have found some live ammo.
My guess, being in the pacific and out on an island, that it was a 4 engine bomber, probably being a B-29 (longest range back then), or perhaps a B-17.

Fuel and hydraulic lines could be used. Both types had radial engines.

B-29 engines:
Wright Aeronautical Corporation. R-3350 Duplex Cyclone engine - twin row, supercharged, air-cooled, radial engine with 18 cylinders and a displacement of 3,350 cubic inches. Two General Electric B-11 superchargers, one on each side of the nacelle.
2,200 hp R-3350-13 17ft 0" (5.18m) three-blade propellers 3 XB-29s
2,200 hp R-3350-21 17ft 0" (5.18m) three-blade propellers 14 service-test YB-29s
2,200 hp R-3350-23 16ft 7" (5.05m) four-blade Hamilton Standard constant-speed, full feathering propellers B-29s
R-3350-41; R-3350-57; R-3350-57A

R-3350-57 Specs
Type: Air-cooled, 18-cylinder twin-row radial engine
Country/Date: U.S.A., 1942
Rating: 2,200 hp @ 2800 rpm
Displacement: 3,350 cu. in.
Weight: 2,779 lbs.
Bore & Stroke: 6.125" & 6.3"

The immensely powerful Wright R-3350 was chosen as the powerplant for the B-29. Four of these massive engines provided the power to move each B-29. Problems with overheating were legendary but were overcome with numerous field modifications and changes in engine use. Altogether the R-3350 went through tens of thousands of design changes during its early development. Pilots learned to use as much of the runway as possible and build up speed to help cool the engines before slowing climbing for altitude.

Work on the engine began in January 1936 and the first one ran in May 1937. It was similar in design to the company's R-2600 14-cylinder radial, sharing the same bore and stroke but adding two more cylinders per row for additional displacement. A three-piece forged aluminum (later changed to steel) crankcase, cast heads and a magnesium supercharger case to reduce weight. Downdraft carburetion on early engines yielded mixture inconsistencies between the front and rear cylinder rows, which was solved on later models by changing to a direct fuel injection system.

Wright Aeronautical built a new facility at Woodbridge, NJ for the R-3350 and shifted production at their Cincinnati plant exclusively to the Wright engine. Total output between these two plants approached 13,800. Chrysler's Dodge Chicago Division, supplied over 18,400 engines from their Chicago, IL location. As design problems were overcome the R-3350 saw its time between overhauls increase from 100 to 400 hours by the end of the war.

Almost all of the engine nacelles, as big as a fighter fuselage, were made by the Fisher Body division of General Motors. Cleveland facility.
from
http://www.ww2guide.com/b29ops.shtml [Broken]
 
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wolram

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Astronuc said:
My guess, being in the pacific and out on an island, that it was a 4 engine bomber, probably being a B-29 (longest range back then), or perhaps a B-17.

Fuel and hydraulic lines could be used. Both radial engines.

Im afraid the engines are badly damaged, but there is what looks like an
auxiliary generator that looks salvageable.
 

Astronuc

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wolram said:
Im afraid the engines are badly damaged, but there is what looks like an auxiliary generator that looks salvageable.
Cool - a potential power source. But any fuel?
 

Astronuc

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brewnog said:
*looks around, then fills up still with the secret stash of grain alcohol which me and Astro have been brewing since we arrived!*
*Whispers to brewnog - Shhhhh!!!*
Thinks - High Octane. :tongue2: :biggrin:

I hope some our colleagues now appreciate what real engineers can do! :biggrin: :rofl: :rofl:
 

wolram

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Astronuc said:
Cool - a potential power source. But any fuel?
Sorry no fuel, and its four stroke coil ignition.
 

Astronuc

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wolram said:
Sorry no fuel, and its four stroke coil ignition.
Not to worry, brewnog and I are working on that matter. :wink:

Hopefully, he and I will be testing shortly. :tongue2: :biggrin:

Now I understand the origin of 'brewnog'. :biggrin:
 

Moonbear

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Astronuc said:
Not to worry, brewnog and I are working on that matter. :wink:

Hopefully, he and I will be testing shortly. :tongue2: :biggrin:

Now I understand the origin of 'brewnog'. :biggrin:
I don't suppose there are enough parts to rig up any sort of turbine to generate electricity from those propellers, is there?

Now, if someone handy with that axe can carve a bowl shape from a log around here, I can use that as a mold to start hammering sheets of metal into cookware. Let's just first make sure we think through any other uses for it and only allocate what we can afford to spare as cookware (I definitely have to have one sheet for that purpose, eating is a priority, but more than that will be more for convenience with any surplus materials, so should be put to other uses first if needed). Anyone good at whittling? If so, grab that hunting knife; I need a big wooden spoon, make it with a deep bowl so we can scoop up soup with it...if there's time to make more than one, we won't have to pass around one spoon for everyone to share, but again, one will do for now.
 

Danger

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I have to say, this is my absolute favourite thread ever! Thanks, Wooly!
There's a reasonable possibility that one working engine can be assembled out of 4 non-working ones. Brewnog and Astro are probably most knowledgeable about how to make replacement seals, because for sure the originals will be shot. Everything would have to be disassembled, cleaned, checked for damage, and catalogued. Those Wright motors will run on alcohol, so fuel won't be a problem once the still is going. Fish oil (or Belga if one strays by) is adequate for lubrication over short runs. It can also be used for hydraulic fluid. Although the plane will never fly, the motor could get some decent speed out of a boat. It should just be used supplementally, though. The batteries would have to be reconditioned and recharged, which could be a problem. The generators could be pedal powered for recharging, but I don't know where we'd find acid. On the other hand, I guess we could just feed the generator directly to the starter circuit.
WWII military ammo should still be in perfectly acceptable condition, although there might be some surface corrosion to polish off for proper feeding. Aircraft machine guns contain something like 20% (?) tracer rounds, which should be kept for use as flares when a ship or plane is near. The rest can be used for base defense against whatever, but only as an adjunct to proper physical barriers. As Brewski said, a cartridge can make a mighty fine fire-starter if we lose the ones that are already burning. Gunpowder also makes a reasonable stiptic in an emergency.
Moonbear, probably no need to make your own pots, etc.. The engine oil sumps, hydraulic reservoirs, etc.. should suffice for that. As for propellor windmills, it's worth a try. They probably wouldn't be very effective, but better than nothing. If we polish the blades, they'll also be a constant signalling device. Since they're constant-speed, we can ressurect the pitch-controls to maximize efficiency. If there's enough wind, they can also be used to run the hydraulic pumps or even one of the superchargers for a compressed air source.
If there are bombs on board the plane, keep the hell away from them! Even if the primary explosive is still stable, there's absolutely no way to know what condition the fuses are in. For this reason alone, I would make sure that the camp is a right fair distance away from the wreckage. It would also make scavenging a lot trickier.
 

Danger

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Forgot to mention:
There's enough material in one of those birds to build a fairly mechanized society, such as wheels, axles, control cables, pulleys, etc. to build winches, grindstones, power drills, alcohol fuelled stoves; electric motors for whatever purposes (starters, trim servos, etc.), and one mustn't forget the ever popular radio it there's one still in it. Also spring steel for use in bows, swords, etc..
 

brewnog

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Astronuc said:
Not to worry, brewnog and I are working on that matter. :wink:
Hopefully, he and I will be testing shortly. :tongue2: :biggrin:
Now I understand the origin of 'brewnog'. :biggrin:
Haha, ohhh yes!

I really don't think we're going to have much need for electricity in the near future. As time goes on, I reckon the only electricity we need is for a radio, if there's any chance of escape (or entertainment!). The fuel would otherwise be best suited for other means, namely for warmth and light. I suppose if we're there for years and years, we could make some kind of machine shop, using the generator to power some useful stuff like water pumps, bellows, maybe even a rudimentary forge if we were planning (hoping?) to stay there for a while. Electricity is over-rated, I'm sure Wolram would be happy to be stranded out here with us.

If we have a plane to rip up, making tools and utensils will not be a problem. Sheet aluminium/steel is piss easy to work with, we can make pretty much anything we need. I, for one, will definitely be making canoes from the engine shrouds.
 

Moonbear

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Danger said:
Moonbear, probably no need to make your own pots, etc.. The engine oil sumps, hydraulic reservoirs, etc.. should suffice for that.
Well, we'll have to see if I can get the oil or hydraulic fluids cleaned out of them without the aid of any detergents to make them safe to eat from. We don't want to poison the whole camp with hydraulic fluid in our soup. :yuck: I'll drag them down to the beach and see if I can scrub them with sand. :uhh: How heavy are those things? Am I going to need help lifting?

Good idea about polishing the propellers and using those as a signal. Doubly good if they can provide enough power to run a generator, but as a signal, they'll be much better than just flat metal...nobody has to stand out trying to wave them to catch the sun's reflection if we hear any planes go by.
 

brewnog

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As an aside, I might sack off the engineering side of the shipwreck party and play in the kitchens every once in a while. I made some cracking nettle soup today, using only stuff I found in my garden! :smile:
 

Astronuc

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I think whatever the still makes, will probably be good solvent, as well as fuel.

Presumably, at some point, once the captain of the ship fails to report in on schedule, a search and rescue will be initiated.

We'll have to be careful with the ammo.

Good thing Danger's here. We'll have to check out the oil sumps and hyrdraulic reservoirs. Hopefully there are some spanners and screwdrivers around.

Hopefully, no UXB's but if they are not on the plane, one of more could be nearby. The fuzes could be very sensitive.
 
Moonbear said:
I agree with DaveC, first night, find shelter. We don't know what the climate is on this island. Are we going to be scorched by mid-afternoon sun, or half frozen at night? Either way, until we locate fresh water, we'll need a sheltered place to rest between excursions, and to regroup every so often to determine what progress is made and what still needs to be done.
Fresh water is most important. Have you ever gone a day, night, and long morning without drinking anything?

You're a group, anyway, so if it gets cold you just huddle together.
 
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Danger

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Moonbear said:
Well, we'll have to see if I can get the oil or hydraulic fluids cleaned out of them without the aid of any detergents to make them safe to eat from. We don't want to poison the whole camp with hydraulic fluid in our soup. :yuck: I'll drag them down to the beach and see if I can scrub them with sand.
Probably be easier to burn them out, chip off any hardened residue, and save the sand scrub for last.

Moonbear said:
How heavy are those things? Am I going to need help lifting?
I really don't know, but probably at least 50 kgs.

Astronuc said:
Good thing Danger's here. We'll have to check out the oil sumps and hyrdraulic reservoirs. Hopefully there are some spanners and screwdrivers around.
I've PM'd FredGarvin and told him to get his ass over here, but he's off-line so it might be a while. He'll know more about those engines than the rest of us put together. Using the backside of your axe as a hammer, and getting a good hot fire going, I'm sure that we can forge whatever simple tools we need. Luckily, they didn't use weird crap like Torx screws or shear-bolts back then.

Brewnog's mention of electricity ticked another thing over in my mind. Not only are there interior and panel lights available for our domestic use; those landing lights and strobes will make more fine signalling devices.
 

brewnog

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Danger said:
Brewnog's mention of electricity ticked another thing over in my mind. Not only are there interior and panel lights available for our domestic use; those landing lights and strobes will make more fine signalling devices.
Or, a bloody good beach party...

Sorry, but I've just realised something, and it seems to have been lost on some of you. 20 of us, all integlligent, resourceful, hard-working, motivated lads and ladesses have been put on a desert island, with enough natural resources to be able to build a kickarse camp, as well as a few dozen tonnes of bomber with which we can make some useful stuff, with the chance of having some luxuries (showers, parties, beach BBQs, fresh meat), in some beautiful idyllic surroundings, and you're thinking of how to get off this island? I reckon we want to start thinking about camouflage so that nobody else finds us!
 

Danger

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brewnog said:
Sorry, but I've just realised something, and it seems to have been lost on some of you. I reckon we want to start thinking about camouflage so that nobody else finds us!
:rofl: :rofl:
Agreed, if all is considered to be strictly hypothetical. For practical purposes, though, Astro for sure will want to get back with his family, and I suspect some others of you as well. I also have some medical requirements. If Hypatia and/or Moonbear can come up with some natural SSRI for me, I'm all for staying. (Any St. John's Wort around, by chance?) If not, none of you will want me on the same island after a couple of months.
 
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brewnog..nettles, a very rich source of tannic acid! But sadly not in the tropics. I would help moonbear gather insect gauls, and dark barks which we would mix with wood ash.

Tannic acid also binds with proteins in alcohol, and can be used to create a pure product.

from animals/fish we could save any bits of fat...to make soap.
I would have Astro help me hunt bees..so we could have wax and honey!
then we could make mead! :approve:

And Danger I got ya covered..many tropical plants have properties that help you remain calm and collect.
 
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Danger

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hypatia said:
And Danger I got ya covered..many tropical plants have properties that help you remain calm and collect.
Alright! Party on, then!

Now, how about those contraceptives...? :uhh:
 

Moonbear

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BicycleTree said:
Fresh water is most important. Have you ever gone a day, night, and long morning without drinking anything?

You're a group, anyway, so if it gets cold you just huddle together.
And if you read the whole thread, you'd know we started out with a two day supply of food and water, so we're okay for the first night and trek to the new camp. We're already on day two here and survived the night just fine. Please try to keep up.
 

Moonbear

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hypatia said:
brewnog..nettles, a very rich source of tannic acid! But sadly not in the tropics. I would help moonbear gather insect gauls, and dark barks which we would mix with wood ash.

Tannic acid also binds with proteins in alcohol, and can be used to create a pure product.

from animals/fish we could save any bits of fat...to make soap.
I would have Astro help me hunt bees..so we could have wax and honey!
then we could make mead! :approve:

And Danger I got ya covered..many tropical plants have properties that help you remain calm and collect.
Fantastic! Brewnog is right, with all of us together, who wants to go home? If I ever get stranded on a deserted island, this is the crowd I want to be with (but my luck is I'd get stranded with a bunch of politicians or celebrities who think it's hard work spending a day in a make-up chair).
 

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