The island is big and wooded in parts, How do they survive?

[DaveC426913]

But seriously.

1. Triage. Check for any wounded (this may not be an issue, but I'm generalizing the scenario). After all, the goal is to maximize survival of the castaways, right?

1. Take stock of assets. (Again, generalizing scenario. What if there's a radio transceiver, or water?)

1. Find shelter. (Don't bother making it, just find something that will get you through the night. Explore the shoreline for X hundred yards in each direction. Do NOT go more than 50 yards into the woods.)

IMO, shelter is a more immediate priority than water. You can survive the night without water. You might niot survive the night if you don't have shelter when a storm comes up. You can't look for shelter after dusk, or you risk getting lost, haviing an accident or worse.

Ideally, all the above will happen simultaneously, as there are 20 people, but that doesn't alter the order of priorities.

2. Find fresh water
3. Find food source
4. As needed:
- explore (shore first, do not wander into woods)
- set up an S.O.S.

 

[BicycleTree]

Fresh water first. You can sleep wherever there is ground. If a tsunami washes you away during the night, well, tough luck, that goes with being on an island, but if you can't find water in a day or two then you're sure to die. Some tree branches make a bed. Food next. What roots and bark can you boil? If anyone has a pet dog you can put it to good use as a taster. If you're lucky there are berries or fruit; if you were lost where I live, except during a few short days in summer, there are no berries or fruit. Maybe you could eat boiled grass, if there is any grass. Don't forget ants and grubs--those are often easy to find. Hunting might be an option.

 

[BicycleTree]

I once read a short story by Stephen King wherein a shipwrecked surgeon on an island with nothing to eat cut off his body parts one by one and ate them.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What if you can't find water?

Collect rainwater:

Collect dew: Tie rags to your ankles and walk in grass and foliage at sunrise. Then wring out the rags and collect the water.

Look for green on any local mountains: Follow vegetation and animal trails to any potential sources.

Catch fish: the eyes, spines, and even the skin contain fresh water. Suck the liquids out of the eyes and spine, and wring out the flesh in a cloth.

Look for bird dropping on rocks: This may indicate that birds congregate around water found in the cracks of the rock.

Locate Banana and plantain trees: Cut down the tree and leave about a one foot stump. Scoop out to form a hollow with a bowl shape. The roots will continually refill the stump with water for about four days.

Whatever you do, never lose your soccerball.

 

[Lisa!]

Maybe the answer is, join OFER and you'll learn what to do in this situation!

 

[Moonbear]

I agree with DaveC, first night, find shelter. We don't know what the climate is on this island. Are we going to be scorched by mid-afternoon sun, or half frozen at night? Either way, until we locate fresh water, we'll need a sheltered place to rest between excursions, and to regroup every so often to determine what progress is made and what still needs to be done.

Though, Wolram has informed us there's a water source about 4 hours away. So, let's get a good night's rest in our temporary shelters the first night and start out at dawn if we're going to move camp. That way we can get there before the afternoon heat hits us. I suggest we send two people ahead of the large group who will walk more quietly to scout out where the wildlife are before the large group scares them off. We can't rely on nuts and berries because we don't know what ones are safe to eat. Unless we come across familiar plants, better to stick with hunting and fishing.

If we're camping near a rare water source, we'll have to be careful of the boars, but that also means our food will come to us. We just need to fashion traps. One option is digging pits.

We may also be able to fashion some rope/twine from the plants or from our clothing, and bend one of those needles into a hook to try fishing. Alternatively, we might be able to make a net to fish along the surf. If we have to walk back 4 hours for fishing, then I'd recommend we assign two people that job (it'll take 2 to drag a net through the water), or we can rotate the task each day. Figure it will take another two hours to catch enough fish to bring back to camp, so they're going to be gone for 10 hours a day. We need to provide them with something to carry water with them. Hopefully we'll have good success with the hunting and won't need to send people on 10 hour trips for fish every day.

So, does anyone know anything about making traps? We might be able to funnel animals toward them if we can put obstructions on either side of a gradually narrowing path toward the traps, then work our way around to the far side and drive anything in that path forward and into the traps. We can't do this too often though, or the animals will catch on. Some days, we should leave the far side of the trap open so they run right through and don't get scared of taking that path of "escape" until we need that meat, and then close the traps.

On our first night, let's go around the group and find out what skills people have. Astronuc has already told us he's good with weilding the axe. As we build more permanent shelters, that'll come in handy. I'm decent at sewing, enough for whatever we're going to need to sew, and I can hold my own with the hand saw and hammer too. I'd rather not play with axes lest I add more to the casualty list, unless it's to use the blade to butcher the animals we catch, which I'm willing to do...I can handle all the butchering, fish cleaning, etc. Okay, who's next?

 

[Smurf]

Well, if it's a large island, then they should start a fire, and burn the whole forest down. That would send up a large cloud of smoke, which would be visible from the NOAA weather satellites; some geologists or whatever would fly into investigate. In the meantime, they could survive on the barbecued remains of whatever indigenous wildlife used to live there. Also, it would be easier to find any natural water source or spring if there were no trees to block the view.

This is actually an idea worth considering if the island is big enough, we may choose to sacrafice some of the wooded land to try to catch someone's attention. We'd have to control if of course, let's say we choose a spot surrounded by Rivers, Coast, Ridges, or just unwooded land that we could cover up with sand or something to make fire safe.

 

[Smurf]

I vouch for an anarchist system of government, probably based on the Zapatista's model of cousels and multiple leaders. This system would probably be most efficient in groups larger than 20 people but would work well none-the-less.

 

[Danger]

Okay, who's next?

I can make weapons out of almost anything, so perhaps I would best serve as armourer and hunter. Personally, I have no desire to take on a wild boar with an axe. Some high-power crossbows and/or longbows would be preferable. There should be enough straight pieces of wood available to fashion fire-hardened arrows and spears. Spear-throwers can triple (approx.) the range and accuracy, and are very simple to make. The strength of bows can be vastly increased with the addition of joints and 'springs' made from animal sinew or leather strips. Incidentally, when using such things, make sure that any hunters stay together and that nobody else gets within a kilometre of them. It's critical to know where such activity is going on so no one gets killed by a overshot.
There are dozens of kinds of effective traps, but should be specialized for what you want to catch. Something strong enough to capture or kill an adult boar would totally destroy a rabbit or not be triggered by it (except for pits, which have some drawbacks but are foolproof).
Don't waste a good needle trying to make a fishhook out of it. Unless you heat it just right, it'll snap when you try to bend it. Save it and any real thread for medical emergencies. Make bone hooks and fabric-sewing needles, since they don't need any particular sophistication. If the clothing is to be made of leather or furred hide, it's easier to sew by using an awl and inserting the lace after.
This part is just my personal approach to shelter, because I like fully enclosed places that are easily guarded. If any kind of cave is available, I'd heave a couple of hot, smoky torches in as far as possible to flush out whatever is living there and then build some sort of cover for the entrance to keep it out and maintain dryness. There should be a fire just inside the entrance at all times, with some sort of deflector to send the smoke outside.
Oh yeah... with a mixed population, any chemists in the crowd should see what they can do about finding some naturally-occurring spermicide.
As a last resort, for any additional insulation or bedding materials we can just shave Astronuc every couple of days.

 

[Astronuc]

Personally, I have no desire to take on a wild boar with an axe.

I'll take on the boars.

As a last resort, for any additional insulation or bedding materials we can just shave Astronuc every couple of days.

Oh, NO! Not the beard! Anything but the beard. You can shave my head instead.

Welcome aboard, mate! You to Moonbear! Did you manage to save your survival manual? I seem to remember a book from another thread.

Danger, about the comment preceding the one about my beard, I hope we're not stranded that long.

 

[wolram]

So, the first night was uncomfortable, "we relocated to the water source",
Found some rough bedding, and we arranged a guard rota, two people two Hr
shifts, and the rest of us slept.
In the morning we discuss our talents, astronuk is a good builder and boar
hunter, Danger is good at weaponry and hunting, Moonbear is a good cloths maker and butcher, I am a good scavenger, and quite inventive.
So i propose Astrnuk with four others find a site to build a shelter, big enough
for all, and reasonably close to water." we can all chip in on the heavy stuff".
Danger starts making weapons and traps with another four people.
Moonbear and four more find a way to clothe us all and set up some kind of kitchen
I and the remaining four start searching the area for anything edible or of some
use.
Suggestions ?

 

[Smurf]

I manage to construct a makeshift harmonica out of nothing but twigs, leaf stems and a coconut shell to provide soothing tunes to keep up morale.

 

[wolram]

I manage to construct a makeshift harmonica out of nothing but twigs, leaf stems and a coconut shell to provide soothing tunes to keep up morale.

Ok Smurf, you can allso be the head sanitation engineer.

 

[wolram]

Maybe the answer is, join OFER and you'll learn what to do in this situation!

All part of my master plan Lisa, by the way can you cook or sew or have some
other talent?

 

[Astronuc]

Ok Smurf, you can allso be the head sanitation engineer.

Good practical job for a civil engineer.

Did anyone save the Whisky? for medicinal purposes only, of course.

 

[wolram]

Did anyone save the Whisky? for medicinal purposes only, of course. [/QUOTE]

Sorry but some time when we are less busy a still would be a good
idea

Stop press, the scavengers have found a crashed WW11 bomber. it is badly
damaged though, and mostly in bits.

 

[Moonbear]

If the clothing is to be made of leather or furred hide...

Does anyone in our group know how to tan leather? I can skin the animals, but I don't know anything about how to process the hides so they don't just rot. Optimally, if we can tan the hides, we could use them as waterproof tents or roofs for lean-to shelters in case there's no natural formations to use as shelter (we can't assume there will be caves or that they would be deep enough or not flooded at every high tide, or anywhere near our water source).

 

[Astronuc]

Did anyone save the Whisky? for medicinal purposes only, of course.

Sorry but some time when we are less busy a still would be a good
idea

Stop press, the scavengers have found a crashed WW11 bomber. it is badly
damaged though, and mostly in bits.

Is the plane useful for a shelter, and how close to the water supply? The skin can be polished for reflectors.

As for the Whisky - Nuts! The horror of it all.

Yes - priority is a still - made from aircraft parts. Someone has to blow out the hydraulic lines.

Most bombers had radial engines. Which kind of bomber is it? Pacific could mean a B-29.

 

[brewnog]

Does anyone in our group know how to tan leather? I can skin the animals, but I don't know anything about how to process the hides so they don't just rot. Optimally, if we can tan the hides, we could use them as waterproof tents or roofs for lean-to shelters in case there's no natural formations to use as shelter (we can't assume there will be caves or that they would be deep enough or not flooded at every high tide, or anywhere near our water source).

If you can do the skinning, I can do the tanning. I tried to skin a rabbit once, found it very difficult. I know how to skin a deer properly, but I'm sure it might be more tricky in real life.

Before tanning, we can keep hides fresh by salting them, until we have enough fresh water to clean them. We then soak the hides in fresh water for a couple of days to clean them of the bulk of the fat, and any traces of salt. Ideally, we'd then soak them in a lime solution for a few days, but if this isn't feasible we can remove the hair and epidermis by scraping the hide. We then remove the fat by scraping it off, and slice the leather according to what we want to make (this is the tricky part, - you "shave" it, to get it to the desired thickness). To tan the leather, we soak it in tannins which we've extracted from vegetable matter, I'm sure Moonbear can get this arranged. Again, it's soaked for a few days, before being dried, and finished by rubbing in fish oil, or tallow to provide a nice, waterproof finish, and to seal the leather.

Hey presto, clothes!

 

[Moonbear]

Stop press, the scavengers have found a crashed WW11 bomber. it is badly
damaged though, and mostly in bits.

Are there any sections of the fuselage that are sufficiently intact to provide a roof over our heads? It would save a lot of labor and time if we can just sleep under a big hunk of metal.

No medicinal whiskey? DARN! Whisky has SOOOO many uses! With parts from that bomber, we probably can build a halfway decent still though, and there really are useful purposes for alcohol, including disinfecting wounds and to use as a lamp or burner inside our shelter if our fire gets rained on. Of the group we have so far, I think Danger, brewnog, Astronuc and Wolram are the team best capable of sorting through the wreckage to determine what's useable and what can be built from the parts. Oh, and is there a toolkit aboard the plane? We may be able to supplement our tools. A few shards of broken glass would be much appreciated in our kitchen/butcher shop. Any weapons aboard that plane that can be restored to working condition? If there are, let's not waste what small amount of ammo we may have there on hunting unless Danger's bows and arrows and traps don't work, it's better to save those in case of a boar attack where we need stopping power fast!

 

[Moonbear]

If you can do the skinning, I can do the tanning. I tried to skin a rabbit once, found it very difficult. I know how to skin a deer properly, but I'm sure it might be more tricky in real life.

Deer should be easier than rabbit since rabbits have much thinner skin. I can't promise perfection, but we're not planning on using them for decoration, so if I cut through in a place or two, I'm sure we could sew it back together or use that one for cutting into smaller strips for ties and such. With more practice, I'll get better at it.

Okay, though, if I need to start extracting tannins from vegetation, I'm going to need some sort of kettle I can boil water in over the fire, and something to pick up the kettle with (we'll also need a container that we can pour this stuff into after it's boiled...I'll need that kettle for cooking your soup too). Anything in that plane wreckage that looks kettle-like? Maybe a metal helmet? I'd prefer something larger, or you're all going to have to eat your soup in shifts, but I'll make do with whatever you can provide me.

 

[brewnog]

Indeed, regarding the bomber there are lots of treasure items we'd look for.

Fuel, and explosives need to be handled and stored carefully, but are potentially very useful. Ammo would probably be more useful to us as a means of starting fire, and signalling, than as weapons. As Moonbear said, tools and glass would be looked out for.

Personally, I'd like to polish up some of the sheet metal to make signalling devices, but I'd also like to use some of it to make some small sailing vessels which would be ideal for fishing.

And rip out all the hydraulic piping, and make a massive still, to distill, urrrm, seawater! *looks around, then fills up still with the secret stash of grain alcohol which me and Astro have been brewing since we arrived!*[/size]

 

[wolram]

Okay, though, if I need to start extracting tannins from vegetation, I'm going to need some sort of kettle I can boil water in over the fire, and something to pick up the kettle with (we'll also need a container that we can pour this stuff into after it's boiled...I'll need that kettle for cooking your soup too). Anything in that plane wreckage that looks kettle-like? Maybe a metal helmet? I'd prefer something larger, or you're all going to have to eat your soup in shifts, but I'll make do with whatever you can provide me.

Sorry everyone, but the biggest pieces of AP are about two meters, lots of
Ally though, to make pots etc out of, lots of pexi glass, copper wire, it looks
like they jettisoned any thing not bolted down, the engines have all sorts of
pipe work and i have found some live ammo.

 

[brewnog]

lots of Ally though, the engines have all sorts of pipe work

So Integral can have his GT motorbike after all?

 

[Astronuc]

Ally though, to make pots etc out of, lots of pexi glass, copper wire, it looks
like they jettisoned any thing not bolted down, the engines have all sorts of
pipe work and i have found some live ammo.

My guess, being in the pacific and out on an island, that it was a 4 engine bomber, probably being a B-29 (longest range back then), or perhaps a B-17.

Fuel and hydraulic lines could be used. Both types had radial engines.

B-29 engines:

Wright Aeronautical Corporation. R-3350 Duplex Cyclone engine - twin row, supercharged, air-cooled, radial engine with 18 cylinders and a displacement of 3,350 cubic inches. Two General Electric B-11 superchargers, one on each side of the nacelle.
2,200 hp R-3350-13 17ft 0" (5.18m) three-blade propellers 3 XB-29s
2,200 hp R-3350-21 17ft 0" (5.18m) three-blade propellers 14 service-test YB-29s
2,200 hp R-3350-23 16ft 7" (5.05m) four-blade Hamilton Standard constant-speed, full feathering propellers B-29s
R-3350-41; R-3350-57; R-3350-57A

R-3350-57 Specs
Type: Air-cooled, 18-cylinder twin-row radial engine
Country/Date: U.S.A., 1942
Rating: 2,200 hp @ 2800 rpm
Displacement: 3,350 cu. in.
Weight: 2,779 lbs.
Bore & Stroke: 6.125" & 6.3"

The immensely powerful Wright R-3350 was chosen as the powerplant for the B-29. Four of these massive engines provided the power to move each B-29. Problems with overheating were legendary but were overcome with numerous field modifications and changes in engine use. Altogether the R-3350 went through tens of thousands of design changes during its early development. Pilots learned to use as much of the runway as possible and build up speed to help cool the engines before slowing climbing for altitude.

Work on the engine began in January 1936 and the first one ran in May 1937. It was similar in design to the company's R-2600 14-cylinder radial, sharing the same bore and stroke but adding two more cylinders per row for additional displacement. A three-piece forged aluminum (later changed to steel) crankcase, cast heads and a magnesium supercharger case to reduce weight. Downdraft carburetion on early engines yielded mixture inconsistencies between the front and rear cylinder rows, which was solved on later models by changing to a direct fuel injection system.

Wright Aeronautical built a new facility at Woodbridge, NJ for the R-3350 and shifted production at their Cincinnati plant exclusively to the Wright engine. Total output between these two plants approached 13,800. Chrysler's Dodge Chicago Division, supplied over 18,400 engines from their Chicago, IL location. As design problems were overcome the R-3350 saw its time between overhauls increase from 100 to 400 hours by the end of the war.

Almost all of the engine nacelles, as big as a fighter fuselage, were made by the Fisher Body division of General Motors. Cleveland facility.

from
http://www.ww2guide.com/b29ops.shtml

 

[wolram]

My guess, being in the pacific and out on an island, that it was a 4 engine bomber, probably being a B-29 (longest range back then), or perhaps a B-17.

Fuel and hydraulic lines could be used. Both radial engines.

Im afraid the engines are badly damaged, but there is what looks like an
auxiliary generator that looks salvageable.

 

[Astronuc]

Im afraid the engines are badly damaged, but there is what looks like an auxiliary generator that looks salvageable.

Cool - a potential power source. But any fuel?

 

[Astronuc]

*looks around, then fills up still with the secret stash of grain alcohol which me and Astro have been brewing since we arrived!*

*Whispers to brewnog - Shhhhh!*[/size] Thinks - High Octane.

I hope some our colleagues now appreciate what real engineers can do!

 

[wolram]

Cool - a potential power source. But any fuel?

Sorry no fuel, and its four stroke coil ignition.

 

[Astronuc]

Sorry no fuel, and its four stroke coil ignition.

Not to worry, brewnog and I are working on that matter.

Hopefully, he and I will be testing shortly.

Now I understand the origin of 'brewnog'.