The Magnitude of Induced EMF in a Moving Rod?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the induced electromotive force (emf) in a moving metal rod situated in a magnetic field. The rod's orientation and motion are specified, along with the magnetic field components. Participants are exploring the correct approach to determine the magnitude of the induced emf.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the use of vector operations, specifically the cross-product and scalar product, in calculating induced emf. There are questions about the correct application of these operations and the interpretation of vector components.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the correct mathematical approach, emphasizing the need to use the scalar product instead of the cross product with the length vector. There is an ongoing exploration of the reasoning behind these operations, with some participants expressing confusion about specific steps and components involved.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a previous year's exam solution being referenced, which may contribute to the confusion regarding the steps and components used in the calculations. Participants are also questioning the treatment of vector components in the context of the scalar product.

DottZakapa
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Homework Statement
A 25.0 cm long metal rod lies in the xy-plane and makes an angle of 36.9 with the positive x-axis and an angle of 53.1 with the positive y-axis. the rod is moving in the +x-direction with a speed of 6.80 m/s. the rod is in a uniform magnetic field B= (0.120T)i-(0.220T)j-(0.0900T)k .
What is the magnitude of the emf induced in the rod? indicate in sketch which end of the rod is at higher potential.
Relevant Equations
induced emf
Homework Statement: A 25.0 cm long metal rod lies in the xy-plane and makes an angle of 36.9 with the positive x-axis and an angle of 53.1 with the positive y-axis. the rod is moving in the +x-direction with a speed of 6.80 m/s. the rod is in a uniform magnetic field B= (0.120T)i-(0.220T)j-(0.0900T)k .
What is the magnitude of the emf induced in the rod? indicate in sketch which end of the rod is at higher potential.
Homework Equations: induced emf

emf =VxBxL
i have done first
vxB= (6.8 m/s i) x( (0.120T)i-(0.220T)j-(0.0900T)k)= (0.612j -1.496k)
next i split in components the length
0,25(cos 36.9 + sin 36.9)= 0.199 i+0.15j
then
(VxB)x(0.199 i+0.15j)=(0.612j -1.496k)x(0.199 i+0.15j)= (0.224i-0.297j-0.121k)

now getting the magnitude of this i don't get the right result. Can anyone explain to me why?
 
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DottZakapa said:
emf =VxBxL
Don't take the cross-product with L. Take the scalar product of ##\vec{v}\times \vec{B}## with ##\vec{L}##. (Note that EMF is a scalar.)
 
Doc Al said:
Don't take the cross-product with L. Take the scalar product of ##\vec{v}\times \vec{B}## with ##\vec{L}##. (Note that EMF is a scalar.)

Screen Shot 2019-08-28 at 19.18.21.png


this is how it should be solved, but i don't get why is so :oldconfused:
 
Is there a step you're not getting? The first step (labeled "Identify" in the given solution) is key and it's just what I had stated earlier. That's what you were doing wrong.

What textbook are you using?
 
Doc Al said:
What textbook are you using?

is a previous years exam solution
Doc Al said:
Is there a step you're not getting? .

what i am not getting is from this point on, the second passage doesn't match the first
Screen Shot 2019-08-28 at 20.31.14.png
 
Sorry, but I'm not seeing which passages don't match.
 
Doc Al said:
Sorry, but I'm not seeing which passages don't match.
it starts with this
Screen Shot 2019-08-28 at 22.09.12.png

then it splits ##\vec L## which is the length of the rod in vector components as follows
Screen Shot 2019-08-28 at 22.09.31.png

you said to not take the scalar product with ##\vec L##, so why is the length in vector components?how do you get this result below? this is what i am not getting. Where is (-1.496 ##\frac V m ##) ## \hat k ## gone?
Screen Shot 2019-08-28 at 22.09.42.png


what is that sin(36.9) doing there?
 
DottZakapa said:
you said to not take the scalar product with ##\vec L##, so why is the length in vector components?
No, I said not to take the cross product with ##\vec L##. (Which is what you were doing in your first post.) But do take the scalar product!
DottZakapa said:
how do you get this result below? this is what i am not getting. Where is (-1.496 ##\frac V m ##) ## \hat k ## gone?
Since ##\vec L## has no ## \hat k ## component, that term vanishes after taking the scalar product.
DottZakapa said:
what is that sin(36.9) doing there?
That's from taking the ## \hat j ## component of ##\vec L##. Note that only the ## \hat j ## components survive the scalar product.
 
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Doc Al said:
No, I said not to take the cross product with ##\vec L##. (Which is what you were doing in your first post.) But do take the scalar product!

Since ##\vec L## has no ## \hat k ## component, that term vanishes after taking the scalar product.

That's from taking the ## \hat j ## component of ##\vec L##. Note that only the ## \hat j ## components survive the scalar product.
Damn now I understood where my problem is.
I had completely forgot how a scalar product works with vectors components.
I've just recalled this i⋅j=i⋅k=j⋅k=0 and i⋅i=j⋅j=k⋅k=1
😓
Now is all bright n clear.
Sorry man, thanks for your time and patient. very gentle.
 

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