The probabililty of 3 rolls of dice and get two 6's

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Philip Wong
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Dice
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the probability of rolling two sixes in three rolls of a die. Participants explore various methods to arrive at the probability, including intuitive approaches and formal mathematical techniques. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical reasoning related to probability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes three methods to calculate the probability: a direct multiplication approach, a binomial equation, and a Bernoulli equation, each yielding different results.
  • Another participant critiques the first method for only considering one arrangement of the outcomes and suggests that it should account for all possible arrangements of the two sixes.
  • A different approach is suggested, focusing on the converse probability of not rolling any sixes and using that to find the desired probability.
  • There is a discussion about the correct application of the Bernoulli formula, with one participant expressing uncertainty about the interpretation of their previous calculations.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the interpretation of the formulas, particularly in relation to the number of sixes rolled.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the various methods proposed. There is no consensus on which method is definitively correct, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note potential misapplications of probability formulas and the need for careful consideration of arrangements in calculating probabilities. There is also mention of the independence of dice rolls, which is assumed but not explicitly confirmed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in probability theory, particularly in the context of discrete events like dice rolls. It may also benefit those looking to understand common pitfalls in applying probability formulas.

Philip Wong
Messages
95
Reaction score
0
I was asked to help someone to work out the probability above. It was more than a year since I done similar questions and thing do get rusty... So I hope to work it out here and get point out where I did wrong before I show that person the correct answer.

Intuitively there is three ways I came up to solve the problem, which apparently gave different answers. So it's either one or two or all three methods are wrong. Methods I came to mind are:

1) 1/6 * 1/6 * 5/6 = 0.023 -> this is the first idea came to my mind, since there is only 3trials and the probability of getting a 6 is 1/6, so I use the multiply rule to times things together. The results seems rather small, so I doubt this is the correct method.

2) 3C2 * 1/6 * (5/6)^2 = 0.347 -> I got this by using the binomial equation

3) 3C2 * 1/6 * 5/6 = 0.416 -> I got this by using the Bernoulli equation i.e. n*p*q. where n is the number of all possible outcomes, p is the probability of getting a 6, and q is the probability of not getting a 6.

Please check which methods I used was correct, and if neither of them was correct please suggest a way to work this out.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi Philip!

The first one is wrong because you just consider the case [6, 6, x], you need to consider also the cases [6, x, 6] and [x, 6, 6], that is [itex]3 \cdot 0.023.. \sim 0.069[/itex]

The second case is wrong because you raised to the power of two the wrong probability
[itex]{3\choose 2} \cdot (1/6)^2 \cdot 5/6 \sim 0.069[/itex] which also explains why you also got wrong the Bernoulli formula.

Good luck getting "unrusted"! :wink:
 
usually this is solved by considering the converse probability: what's the probability of not getting any 6's in three rolls and then use the 100% - P to get the probability that you want.
 
Philip Wong said:
I was asked to help someone to work out the probability above. It was more than a year since I done similar questions and thing do get rusty... So I hope to work it out here and get point out where I did wrong before I show that person the correct answer.

Intuitively there is three ways I came up to solve the problem, which apparently gave different answers. So it's either one or two or all three methods are wrong. Methods I came to mind are:

1) 1/6 * 1/6 * 5/6 = 0.023 -> this is the first idea came to my mind, since there is only 3trials and the probability of getting a 6 is 1/6, so I use the multiply rule to times things together. The results seems rather small, so I doubt this is the correct method.

2) 3C2 * 1/6 * (5/6)^2 = 0.347 -> I got this by using the binomial equation

3) 3C2 * 1/6 * 5/6 = 0.416 -> I got this by using the Bernoulli equation i.e. n*p*q. where n is the number of all possible outcomes, p is the probability of getting a 6, and q is the probability of not getting a 6.

Please check which methods I used was correct, and if neither of them was correct please suggest a way to work this out.

Hey Philip Wong.

The best way I think to do this is to use a binomial distribution with 3 trials where one state corresponds to rolling a 6 and the other not rolling a 6. Each dice roll is independent (assumed) and has the same probabilities. In this case p = 1/6 and 1-p = 5/6

This means your probability is given 3C2 p^2 x (1-p) = 3C2 x 5/192 = 15/192

You can visualize this by drawing a tree diagram of the events on paper. Use two events: a 6 for one and a non-6 for everything else and then you will get a tree with 8 possibilities with three levels of depth.
 
chiro said:
Hey Philip Wong.

The best way I think to do this is to use a binomial distribution with 3 trials where one state corresponds to rolling a 6 and the other not rolling a 6. Each dice roll is independent (assumed) and has the same probabilities. In this case p = 1/6 and 1-p = 5/6

This means your probability is given 3C2 p^2 x (1-p) = 3C2 x 5/192 = 15/192

You can visualize this by drawing a tree diagram of the events on paper. Use two events: a 6 for one and a non-6 for everything else and then you will get a tree with 8 possibilities with three levels of depth.

viraltux said:
Hi Philip!

The first one is wrong because you just consider the case [6, 6, x], you need to consider also the cases [6, x, 6] and [x, 6, 6], that is [itex]3 \cdot 0.023.. \sim 0.069[/itex]

The second case is wrong because you raised to the power of two the wrong probability
[itex]{3\choose 2} \cdot (1/6)^2 \cdot 5/6 \sim 0.069[/itex] which also explains why you also got wrong the Bernoulli formula.

Good luck getting "unrusted"! :wink:

Hi guys,
Thanks for your help. So what I should do if I were to keep using the Bernoulli formula (n.p.q) what I should really do is:
[itex]{3\choose 2} \cdot (1/6)^2 \cdot 5/6[/itex]

I knew I had either misplaced or missed something in the formula.
So if I used what I've provided before, i.e. [itex]{3\choose 2} \cdot (1/6) \cdot (5/6)^2[/itex] what it really meant was, the probability of only getting one 6 out of the three dice roll right?

thanks
 
Philip Wong said:
So if I used what I've provided before, i.e. [itex]{3\choose 2} \cdot (1/6) \cdot (5/6)^2[/itex] what it really meant was, the probability of only getting one 6 out of the three dice roll right?

thanks

Nope, it would be the probability of getting anything but 6 in both dices.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
6K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
5K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K