Thermal Energy Equation Term - Chain Rule

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the thermal energy equation for a fluid, specifically focusing on the manipulation of terms involving pressure and density using calculus concepts such as the chain rule and product rule.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the chain rule and product rule in differentiating the expressions involving pressure and density. Questions arise regarding the correct application of these rules and the presence of a minus sign in one of the expressions.

Discussion Status

Some participants are exploring the calculus involved in the expressions, with one suggesting a potential error in the sign. There is an acknowledgment of the need for further clarification on the differentiation process, and hints are offered without providing complete solutions.

Contextual Notes

One participant notes a lack of sufficient work shown by the original poster, which may impact the clarity of the discussion. There is also mention of the original poster's distance from calculus, indicating a potential gap in foundational understanding.

kevman90
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Homework Statement


I am going through a derivation of the thermal energy equation for a fluid and am stumped on one of the steps. Specifically, the text I am using converts the term:

P/ρ*(Dρ/Dt)

to:

ρ*D/Dt(P/ρ) - DP/Dt

where:
ρ = density
P = pressure
D/Dt = material derivative

The text says this is done using the chain rule of differentiation but I can't derive it myself. I'm far removed from calculus so maybe I'm missing something simple but any help would be appreciated.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

 
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One of the two expressions you have needs an extra minus sign. Momentarily, I will show the calculus of the second expression with the chain rule... @kevman90 Do you know how to take the derivative of ## \frac{d(uv)}{dt}##? It is ## u (\frac{dv}{dt}) +v(\frac{du}{dt}) ##. In this case, ## u=P ## and ## v=1/\rho ##. With the chain rule, ## \frac{dv}{dt}=(\frac{dv}{d \rho}) (\frac{d \rho}{dt}) ##. Do you know how to compute ## \frac{d v}{d \rho} ## ? With that, you should be able to process the second expression that you have, but I think you will find that it equals the minus of your first expression.
 
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Charles Link said:
One of the two expressions you have needs an extra minus sign. Momentarily, I will show the calculus of the second expression with the chain rule...
Sorry @Charles Link -- I was in the process of deleting the OP and warning for not showing enough work. But if you want to give a couple hints, that's probably okay.
 
Last edited:
This makes sense - didn't think about using the product rule. I will work through it later but I think I've got it. Also my mistake with the minus sign I forgot to include it out in front of the first term. Thanks!
 
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