Velocity transformation using the chain rule

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the velocity transformation formula using the chain rule within the context of special relativity. Participants are exploring the relationship between differentials and derivatives as they relate to the Lorentz transformation equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply the chain rule to derive the velocity transformation but encounters difficulties with differentiating the variables involved. Some participants suggest the need for a full chain rule with partial derivatives, questioning the treatment of time coordinates in the Lorentz transformation.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing alternative approaches and insights. There is a recognition of the complexity involved in differentiating with respect to multiple variables, and some guidance has been offered regarding the use of total versus partial derivatives.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the distinction between total and partial derivatives in the context of the Lorentz transformation, and participants are considering how to properly represent velocity in this framework. The discussion reflects a mix of attempts and theoretical considerations without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Adel Makram
Messages
632
Reaction score
15

Homework Statement


How to obtain the famous formula of velocity transformation using a chain rule.
I know that there is a straightforward way by dividing ##dx## as a function of ##dx`## and ##dt`## on ##dt## which is also a function of them. But I would rather try using the chain rule.

Homework Equations


##x=\gamma(x`+vt`)##
##t=\gamma(t`+\frac{v}{c^2}x`)##

The Attempt at a Solution


I tried the following chain rule ##\frac{dx}{dt}=\frac{dx}{dx`}\frac{dx`}{dt`}\frac{dt`}{dt}## so ##u=\frac{dx}{dx`}\frac{dt`}{dt}u`##
The first term ##\frac{dx}{dx`}=\gamma(1+\frac{v}{u`})##
The second term ##\frac{dt`}{dt}## requires me to take a derivative of ##t`## with respect to ##t##. Here the equation, ##t=\gamma(t`+\frac{v}{c^2}x`)## will not help because I have to differentiate ##x`## with respect to ##t##.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Your chain rules ignores the fact that it is a differentiation wrt many variables. You need the full chain rule with all partial derivatives. An important thing to keep in mind is when t and t' are used in their capacity as coordinates in the Lorentz transformation and when they are used to refer to acurve parameter.
 
Orodruin said:
Your chain rules ignores the fact that it is a differentiation wrt many variables. You need the full chain rule with all partial derivatives. An important thing to keep in mind is when t and t' are used in their capacity as coordinates in the Lorentz transformation and when they are used to refer to acurve parameter.
Here is another trial;
##\frac{dx}{dt}=\frac{\partial x}{\partial x`}\frac{\partial x`}{\partial t}+\frac{\partial x}{\partial t`}\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}##
But ##\frac{\partial x`}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial x`}{\partial t`}\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}##
So, ##\frac{dx}{dt}=\frac{\partial x}{\partial x`}\frac{\partial x`}{\partial t`}\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}+\frac{\partial x}{\partial t`}\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}##
Substitute ##u## for ##\frac{dx}{dt}## and ##u`## for ##\frac{\partial x`}{\partial t`}##
Also, from the two equation of LT ##\frac{\partial x}{\partial x`}=\gamma##, ##\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}=\frac{1}{\gamma}##, ##\frac{\partial x}{\partial t`}=v\gamma## and ##\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}=\frac{1}{\gamma}## (here, I did not use the inverse LT to substitute for ##\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}##, instead I used the main transformation)
yields; ##u=\gamma u`\frac{1}{\gamma}+v\gamma\frac{1}{\gamma}=u`+v## This is non-relativistic transformation.
 
Last edited:
From some help, I found a way out.
First the velocity should be represented by the total derivatives not partial derivatives.
##\frac{dx}{dt}=\frac{dx}{dx`}\frac{dx`}{dt`}\frac{d t`}{dt}##
Now ##\frac{dx}{dx`}## and ##\frac{d t`}{dt}## are expressed in term of partial derivatives;
##\frac{dx}{dx`}=\frac{\partial x}{\partial x`}\frac{\partial x`}{\partial x`}+\frac{\partial x}{\partial t`}\frac{\partial t`}{\partial x`}=\frac{\partial x}{\partial x`}+\frac{\partial x}{\partial t`}\frac{\partial t`}{\partial x`}##
##\frac{dt`}{dt}=\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}\frac{\partial t}{\partial t}+\frac{\partial t`}{\partial x}\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial t`}{\partial t}+\frac{\partial t`}{\partial x}\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}##
Replacing; ##\frac{dx}{dt}## and ##\frac{dx`}{dt`}## by ##u## and ##u`##, and the other partial derivatives from Lorentz Transformation yields the proper result.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
10K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K