Thermal Probability and Trig integrals <3

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the average value of cos θ for molecules impacting a surface, based on a given probability distribution involving angles and speeds. The problem is situated within the context of thermal physics and probability theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the normalization of a probability distribution and its implications on the average value of cos θ. There are attempts to recalculate the average after adjusting integration limits, and questions arise regarding the necessity of normalization in this context.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the integration limits and normalization process, while others are reflecting on the implications of these adjustments. There is an ongoing exploration of the reasoning behind normalization and its relevance to the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted concern about overcounting particles due to the integration limits, with a suggestion that normalization may not be necessary in this specific case. The discussion includes varying interpretations of the normalization constant derived from the calculations.

sugar_scoot
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Given the number of molecules hitting unit area of a surface per second with speeds between v and v +dv and angles between \theta and d\theta to the normal is

\frac{1}{2} v n f(v)dv sin \theta cos \theta d\theta

show that the average value of cos \theta for these molecules is \frac{2}{3}.

I have convinced myself the answer is 4/3 instead. Can anyone show me where I am wrong?
I used P(cos \theta) = sin \theta cos \theta

Then I normalized:
1 = c \int^{\pi}_{0} sin \theta cos \theta d\theta
so that:
c = 2

<cos \theta> = 2 \int^{\pi}_{0} sin \theta cos^{2}\theta d \theta = 2 (2/3) = 4/3
 
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sugar_scoot said:
Given the number of molecules hitting unit area of a surface per second with speeds between v and v +dv and angles between \theta and d\theta to the normal is

\frac{1}{2} v n f(v)dv sin \theta cos \theta d\theta

show that the average value of cos \theta for these molecules is \frac{2}{3}.

I have convinced myself the answer is 4/3 instead. Can anyone show me where I am wrong?
I used P(cos \theta) = sin \theta cos \theta

Then I normalized:
1 = c \int^{\pi}_{0} sin \theta cos \theta d\theta
so that:
c = 2

<cos \theta> = 2 \int^{\pi}_{0} sin \theta cos^{2}\theta d \theta = 2 (2/3) = 4/3

Integrating from 0 to \pi overcounts the number of particles by a factor of 2. You only integrate from the normal to the plane, which is 0 to \pi/2. Your normalization integral actually vanishes as written.
 
Thank you.

Is there an intuitive reason why normalization is unnecessary in this case? Should I continue to attempt normalization as a first step in problems like these?
 
Actually I just did the problem over again with the new integration limits and although my <cos\theta> is now correct, I still found a normalization constant of 2.
 

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