Thermodynamics - Heat Engine Cycle

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving a heat engine cycle with a monatomic ideal gas. Participants are tasked with calculating the change in heat during specific transitions between states defined by pressure and volume parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the ideal gas law and internal energy equations, while questioning the correctness of their calculations and assumptions about the system's states. There are inquiries about the definitions of heat transfer equations and the implications of work done during the transitions.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing calculations and questioning each other's results. Some have offered corrections and clarifications regarding the values used in the calculations, while others are exploring potential errors in the original problem setup.

Contextual Notes

There are mentions of possible typos in the problem statement, particularly concerning the values of pressure and volume. Participants are also checking for omitted details regarding the nature of the processes (e.g., adiabatic, isothermal) that could affect the calculations.

azukibean
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Homework Statement


n = 5 moles, monatomic, ideal gas
p1 = 7280 Pa; v1 = 2 m3
p2 = 7280; v2 = 6
p3 = 6500; v3 = 6

What is the change in heat, from 2 to 3, and from 3 to 1?

Homework Equations


PV = nRT
U = (3/2)nRT
Q = du + dw

The Attempt at a Solution



PV = nRT
(7280)(2) = (5)(8.32)T1

T1 = 350 (correct)
T2= 1050 (correct)
T3 = 937.5 (correct)

U = (3/2)nRT
U1 = (3/2)(5)(8.32)(350) = 21840
U2 = 65520
U3 = 57796.88

W1 = 29120
W2 = 0
W3 = -27560
(all correct)

Q = du + dw
ΔQ1 to 2 = (65520-21840) + 29120 = 72800 (correct)
ΔQ2 to 3 = (57796.88-65520) + 0 = -7723.12 (correct: -7020)
ΔQ3 to 1 (21840-57796.88) - 27560 = -63516.88 (correct: -64220)

This is driving me nuts. I can get the first heat quantity right, but not the next two. I've triple checked my work (though that doesn't totally eliminate the possibility of an arithmetic mistake). Where am I going wrong?
 
Last edited:
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Is Q = du + dw or is dQ = du + dw ?

How come I get T3 = 312.5 from pV = nRT ? Any chance p3 = 19500 ?
Any (other) typos or omissions (adiabatic, isothermal?) in the problem statement ?

You say W1, do you mean W##_{1\rightarrow2}## ? There I get 29120 for the work pΔV the gas is doing.
If so, why is W##_{2\rightarrow3}## = 0 ?
If so, why is W##_{3\rightarrow1}## = -27560 ? The volume does not change ?!
 
Last edited:
BvU said:
Is Q = du + dw or is dQ = du + dw ?
The first one is correct. The heat added or subtracted is equal to the change in internal energy and work.
I'm unsure how to work the problem to find dQ; in ΔQ1→2 I equated it to Q1→2 because I assumed at "step 0" there was no heat energy.

BvU said:
How come I get T3 = 312.5 from pV = nRT ? Any chance p3 = 19500 ?
Any (other) typos or omissions (adiabatic, isothermal?) in the problem statement ?
There are no omissions. V3 should actual be 6 instead of 2. I fixed it. Sorry about that.

BvU said:
You say W1, do you mean W##_{1\rightarrow2}## ? There I get 29120 for the work pΔV the gas is doing.
If so, why is W##_{2\rightarrow3}## = 0 ?
If so, why is W##_{3\rightarrow1}## = -27560 ? The volume does not change ?!
Right.
W##_{2\rightarrow3}## = 0 because the volume does not change.
W##_{3\rightarrow1}## = -27560 because I made a mistake in the original post; V3 should be 6 instead of 2.
 
What happened to the units in your calculations?
 
SteamKing said:
What happened to the units in your calculations?
I added the units to the original problem. There was no unit conversion involved, so I didn't want to clutter my work.
 
Your calculation of U3 is a bit low. I get 58500 J.

You can use ΔU = 3nRΔT/2

ΔU from 2-3 is (3)(5)(8.32)(112.5)/(2) = 7020.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
Your calculation of U3 is a bit low. I get 58500 J.

You can use ΔU = 3nRΔT/2

ΔU from 2-3 is (3)(5)(8.32)(112.5)/(2) = 7020.

AM

Ah, that's it. Thank you so much.
 

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