Thousands of hyphens perish as English marches on

  • Thread starter Thread starter Evo
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    English
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the recent removal of hyphens from approximately 16,000 words in the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, reflecting a shift in language usage influenced by the Internet and informal communication. The editor, Angus Stevenson, notes that many people lack confidence in using hyphens, leading to their decline in everyday writing. Participants express mixed feelings about this change, acknowledging that while hyphens can clarify meaning in complex phrases, their absence often does not hinder understanding in casual contexts. The conversation also touches on the evolution of language, suggesting that the Internet is driving changes rather than merely reflecting them. Overall, the dialogue highlights the ongoing transformation of English and the balance between traditional grammar rules and modern usage.
Evo
Staff Emeritus
Messages
24,029
Reaction score
3,323
Good or bad?

About 16,000 words have succumbed to pressures of the Internet age and lost their hyphens in a new edition of the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary.

Bumble-bee is now bumblebee, ice-cream is ice cream and pot-belly is pot belly.

And if you've got a problem, don't be such a crybaby (formerly cry-baby).

The hyphen has been squeezed as informal ways of communicating, honed in text messages and emails, spread on Web sites and seep into newspapers and books.

"People are not confident about using hyphens anymore, they're not really sure what they are for," said Angus Stevenson, editor of the Shorter OED, the sixth edition of which was published this week.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070921/od_nm/britain_hyphen1_dc
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
I sometimes have trouble telling whether a word needs a hyphen or not.
 
neutrino said:
I sometimes have trouble telling whether a word needs a hyphen or not.
I had dropped most hyphens some time ago.
 
One effect of the internet is that a much larger percentage of people write now than did in the past. If you are a language cop, you must regret that standards have suffered. On the other hand, a linguist probably feels like a kid locked in a candy store.
 
neutrino said:
I sometimes have trouble telling whether a word needs a hyphen or not.
A word doesn't need a hyphen, but the a-word does.
 
Good! :smile:
 
This is an ongoing process in the English language. No-thing new here. Have you tried reading an olde (early 19o0s) book chock full (formerly chock-full) of hyphens? All those hyphens in yester-day's books make olde English look all-most like a foreign language.
 
It seems I have been noncompliant for some time. :rolleyes:

I think I have always used bumblebee, ice cream, but perhaps not pot belly, although I might have written it potbelly.

At least we are more consistent with the German usage of compound nouns, or is that compoundnouns. :biggrin:

And I tend to minimize use of definite and indefinite articles, which bothers some people.
 
Last edited:
Americans seem to use fewer hyphens than Brits.
Sometimes it is necessary though, as in the difference between
"more late night buses" and "more late night-buses"
 
  • #10
D H said:
This is an ongoing process in the English language. No-thing new here. Have you tried reading an olde (early 19o0s) book chock full (formerly chock-full) of hyphens? All those hyphens in yester-day's books make olde English look all-most like a foreign language.

I've noticed this too. I didn't even know today used to be to-day 'til I started having to look through old news papers.
 
  • #11
Well, some of it is context, isn't it? I want some ice cream, but need an ice-cream scoop to serve it. The hyphen serves to keep track of which adjectives modify what nouns. Otherwise, if I said I need an ice cream scoop, I might just as well mean a cream scoop made of ice, would I not?

It's pretty irrelevant in every day conversation or informal writing, because when you talk about an ice cream scoop, everyone knows what you mean. It becomes MUCH more important in scientific writing, because you really might have a string of modifiers in your sentence where it is less clear which one modifies what, and improper use of grammar and hyphens makes your writing less precise and more prone to misinterpretation.

I think it's even less of a problem when the hyphen is dropped and it is turned into just one word rather than two, and wouldn't be much of a crybaby over that.
 
  • #12
Number is next. I've noticed more use of the apostrophe with plurals sans possession. For example:

Random Netizen said:
Ofcourse the dino's will escape and create havoc...

Though several t-rex's run loose in the city...

But notice how the Tyrannosaurus Rex has a hyphen? It seems plausible that the dinosaurs are alive and well, surviving on punctuation. We may need to start monitoring other at risk marks, especially commas and accents.
 
  • #13
This makes me remember the ding that came just five spaces before the end of the line on my old Remington portable. At the ding it was time to either hyphenate or grab the white-out. Oops white out.
 
  • #14
Aha! A cover up!

...

cover-up
 
  • #15
edward said:
This makes me remember the ding that came just five spaces before the end of the line on my old Remington portable. At the ding it was time to either hyphenate or grab the white-out. Oops white out.

:smile: *sigh* I may be the last of that dying generation of people who used an actual typewriter.
 
  • #16
Moonbear said:
:smile: *sigh* I may be the last of that dying generation of people who used an actual typewriter.

Hmm I wonder if there is a club of some kind for former typewriter users. There is for just about everything else.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #17
Is there one for former slide rule users? (Or is it sliderule?)
 
  • #18
D H said:
Is there one for former slide rule users? (Or is it sliderule?)


:smile: :smile:

That was certainly back in the day. And how did we ever get by without gas chromatography and graphing calculators. I remember when I bought my first 4 function calculator, it cost $395 now you can get one for $3.95.
 
  • #19
thiswholeconversationmakesmewonderwhatsthepointofanythinginlanguageotherthanletterspunctuationstakeuptoomuchspacecapitalizationisawasteoftimeallitdoesiscomplicateourlanguagewedontreallyneedanyofitifyouaskmeyouseeicanposteonpfjustaseasilywithoutanyofthoseextralanguagefrillsthisisfinecantyouguysseehowdroppingallthisextrastuffmakeslanguagesomucheasiertounderstand
:biggrin:

Hence, why we shouldn't try to simplify the language too much.:smile:
 
Last edited:
  • #20
Importance of punctuation

Heh, that made me think of this

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours? Gloria


Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is.
All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?
Yours, Gloria
 
  • #21
D H said:
This is an ongoing process in the English language. No-thing new here. Have you tried reading an olde (early 19o0s) book chock full (formerly chock-full) of hyphens? All those hyphens in yester-day's books make olde English look all-most like a foreign language.

Yea, Langauge evolves and changes no matter what. It's not good or bad (it's neither good nor bad? :rolleyes:) ... what's neat now, I think, is that the internet and instant messaging (the written form of the language) seems to be what's driving many of these changes; usually it's the other way around: language changes through verbal communication, and written conventions stagnate that process of change. ...

internet writing is almost a dialect all to itself... "lmao u pwned that newb" barely resembles any form of spoken english :smile:

I wonder what linguists say about the internet.

Evo said:
Heh, that made me think of this

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours? Gloria


Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is.
All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?
Yours, Gloria

:smile: I've never seen that before! where's it form?
 
  • #22
moe darklight said:
:smile: I've never seen that before! where's it form?
It's been around the internet for years.
 
  • #23
Evo said:
It's been around the internet for years.

what I've been missing out! why wasn't I informed. someone's getting fired.
 
  • #24
Evo said:
Heh, that made me think of this

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours? Gloria Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is.
All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?
Yours, Gloria

:smile::smile:
 
  • #25
Astronuc said:
It seems I have been noncompliant for some time. :rolleyes:

I think I have always used bumblebee, ice cream, but perhaps not pot belly, although I might have written it potbelly.

At least we are more consistent with the German usage of compound nouns, or is that compoundnouns. :biggrin:

And I tend to minimize use of definite and indefinite articles, which bothers some people.

rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften... wie geil...
 

Hot Threads

Recent Insights

Back
Top