Time derivative of 3D Spherical Coordinate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the time derivative of the position vector in a 3D spherical coordinate system, specifically addressing the components of the velocity vector and the role of the radial, polar, and azimuthal angles. Participants explore the implications of these derivatives in various contexts, including kinematics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why only the radial part of the position vector is differentiated, suggesting that the polar angle and azimuthal angle should also be considered.
  • Another participant agrees that the time derivatives of the angles should be included unless they are invariant over time, indicating that the approach depends on the specific system being analyzed.
  • A participant provides a formula for the velocity vector, including all relevant derivatives, referencing an external source for clarification.
  • Another participant raises a question about the nature of the position vector, suggesting it should include components in the directions of the unit vectors associated with the angles.
  • One participant clarifies that the position vector in spherical coordinates is defined only by the radial component, emphasizing that the angles are not part of the position vector itself due to their units being in radians or degrees.
  • A later reply corrects their previous omission of unit vectors in the velocity expression, reiterating the formula with the appropriate unit vector components included.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the inclusion of angular components in the velocity vector and the definition of the position vector, indicating that multiple competing perspectives exist without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the dependence of the discussion on the specific nature of the system being analyzed, as well as the importance of distinguishing between scalar and vector components in the context of spherical coordinates.

ebolaformula
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When we obtain the velocity vector for position vector (r, θ, φ)
Why do we take the time derivative of the radial part in the 3D Spherical Coordinate system only?
Don't we need to consider the polar angle and azimuthal angle part like (dr/dt, dθ/dt, dφ/dt)?
 
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You also need to consider the other two parameters, unless ##\theta## and ##\psi## are invariant in time. It depends on the nature of your system or problem at hand.
 
ebolaformula said:
When we obtain the velocity vector for position vector (r, θ, φ)
Why do we take the time derivative of the radial part in the 3D Spherical Coordinate system only?
Don't we need to consider the polar angle and azimuthal angle part like (dr/dt, dθ/dt, dφ/dt)?

Yes. v = \frac{dr}{dt} + r\frac{d\theta}{dt} + r sin \theta \frac{d\phi}{dt}

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_coordinate_system#Kinematics, second equation.
 
Thank you for the answers
But there rises another question, why does the position vector has radial component only?
Shouldn't it be rrθϕ? (r,θ,ϕ are unit vectors)
 
The position vector for the spherical coordinate system is simply ##\boldsymbol{r} = r \boldsymbol{\hat{r}}##. You cannot use ##\theta## and ##\phi## as they are in a position vector. The scalar components of a position vector should have their units as distances. The units of ##\theta## and ##\phi## are in radians or degrees.
 
ecastro said:
The position vector for the spherical coordinate system is simply ##\boldsymbol{r} = r \boldsymbol{\hat{r}}##. You cannot use ##\theta## and ##\phi## as they are in a position vector. The scalar components of a position vector should have their units as distances. The units of ##\theta## and ##\phi## are in radians or degrees.

Thank you!
 

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