Time Derivatives of Expectation Value of X^2 in a Harmonic Oscillator

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the time derivatives of the expectation value of \(X^2\) in a harmonic oscillator, specifically detailing the equations \(\frac{d}{dt} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle\) and \(\frac{d^2}{dt^2} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle\). The participants analyze the commutator \([H, PX + XP]\) and derive its components, leading to the expression \(-2m\omega^2 X^2 + \frac{2}{m}P^2\). The discussion concludes with the clarification that while the time-independent Schrödinger equation is not necessary for transitioning from \(P^2\) to \(H\), understanding the Hamiltonian \(H = \frac{P^2}{2m} + \frac{m\omega^2X^2}{2}\) is crucial for the analysis.

PREREQUISITES
  • Quantum Mechanics fundamentals
  • Understanding of harmonic oscillators
  • Familiarity with the Schrödinger equation
  • Knowledge of commutation relations in quantum mechanics
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  • Study the derivation of the time-dependent Schrödinger equation
  • Explore the properties of commutators in quantum mechanics
  • Learn about the implications of the Hamiltonian in quantum systems
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Homework Statement
Prove that ##\frac{d^2}{dt^2} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle = 4 \omega^2 \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle + \frac{1}{m}\langle \psi (t) \vert H \vert \psi (t) \rangle## for the simple harmonic oscillator.
Relevant Equations
##\frac{i}{\hbar}[H, X] = \frac{1}{m} P##
##\frac{i}{\hbar}[H, P] = -m\omega^2X##
##\frac{d}{dt} \langle \psi (t) \vert A \vert \psi (t) \rangle = \frac{i}{\hbar} \langle \psi (t) \vert [H,A] \vert \psi (t) \rangle## if A is time-independent.
I can show that ##\frac{d}{dt} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle = \frac{1}{m} \langle \psi (t) \vert PX+XP \vert \psi (t) \rangle##.

Taking another derivative with respect to time of this, I get ##\frac{d^2}{dt^2} \langle \psi (t) \vert X^2 \vert \psi (t) \rangle = \frac{i}{m \hbar} \langle \psi (t) \vert [H, PX+XP] \vert \psi (t) \rangle##.

However, I'm not sure how to manipulate this into something that matches the right side of the equation.
I can expand the commutator in the middle to get
##[H, PX + XP] = [H, PX] + [H, XP] = [H, P]X + P[H, X] + [H, X]P + X[H,P]##

I can then substitute in the commutator values known from above (ignoring the factor of ##\frac{i}{\hbar}## momentarily):
##[H, PX + XP] = (-m\omega^2 X)X + P(\frac{1}{m}P) + (\frac{1}{m}P)P + X(-m\omega^2 X) = -2m\omega^2 X^2 + \frac{2}{m}P^2##

I see a way to get from ##P^2## to ##H## using the time-independent Schrödinger equation, but I took derivatives with respect to time to arrive at this equation. Is there another path besides using the time-independent Schrödinger equation, or is it okay to use the time-independent form here?
 
Last edited:
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You don't use time independent Schrödinger equation to pass from ##P^2## to ##H##, but you use the definition of your Hamiltonian(I assume this is possibly what you meant, but saying it just in case). Hamiltonian for harmonic oscillator is, as you know:
$$H = \frac{P^2}{2m} + \frac{m\omega^2X^2}{2}$$

Edit: Also, you seem to have done this correctly so far, but I don't see the final formula appearing in that form, although it would be similar. So I'm not sure whether there's a mistake in the text of the exercise, as your formulas look all good(or maybe I missed a mistake of yours somehow).
 
Last edited:
Thanks!
I was trying something complicated with the Schrödinger equation because I thought I would get something similar but not quite the final formula if I just used the straight Hamiltonian.
Turns out all you need is a few messy algebraic substitutions to get the two sides equivalent :)
 

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