Time dilation and length contraction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between time dilation and length contraction in the context of special relativity. Participants explore whether these effects are different manifestations of the same phenomenon from varying reference frames and seek to understand their mathematical linkage.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the connection between length contraction and time dilation, questioning if they are permutations of the same concept from different reference frames.
  • Another participant suggests that the Lorentz Transformation is essential for linking the two effects mathematically.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of understanding the symmetry between the two phenomena rather than just finding solutions.
  • Drawing spacetime diagrams is proposed as a helpful method for visualizing the relationship between time dilation and length contraction.
  • One participant mentions muon lifetime measurements as a way to illustrate the relationship between the two effects.
  • A later reply agrees that time dilation and length contraction can be viewed as permutations of an interval, relating speed to the invariance of the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the relationship between time dilation and length contraction, with some proposing they are permutations of the same phenomenon while others focus on the mathematical aspects without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the need for clarity on the symmetry between time dilation and length contraction, indicating that further exploration of spacetime diagrams and specific examples may be necessary to fully understand the concepts.

AdamBenHamo
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I've recently been thinking more about special relativity, and while I understand the Lorentz factor and how to apply it to find correct solutions, I'm still stuck on the link between the effects of length contraction and time dilation, are they permutation of the same thing from different reference frames? How do they link together mathematically? Any light shed on this at all would be really helpful! Thanks in advance!

AdamBenHamo
 
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AdamBenHamo said:
I've recently been thinking more about special relativity, and while I understand the Lorentz factor and how to apply it to find correct solutions, I'm still stuck on the link between the effects of length contraction and time dilation, are they permutation of the same thing from different reference frames? How do they link together mathematically? Any light shed on this at all would be really helpful! Thanks in advance!

AdamBenHamo
It's not just the Lorentz factor that you need to use to find correct solutions, it's the Lorentz Transformation that will link them together mathematically.
 
Thankyou ghwellsjr, but that doesn't quite answer my question, it's no so much the solutions that I have a problem finding, but the symmetry between the two phenomena that I can't quite get my head around!
 
Drawing a spacetime diagram helps a lot. Have you done that or have you studied the threads where I have done it?
 
AdamBenHamo said:
Thankyou ghwellsjr, but that doesn't quite answer my question, it's no so much the solutions that I have a problem finding, but the symmetry between the two phenomena that I can't quite get my head around!

The muon lifetime measurements are a good way of seeing the relationship. You could try #27 in this fairly recent thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=679937
 
AdamBenHamo said:
...on the link between the effects of length contraction and time dilation, are they permutation of the same thing from different reference frames? How do they link together mathematically?

I'd agree they are permutations of an interval.


length / time = speed

speed is limited, the limited speed is invariant. Lower speeds are not invariant.
 

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