Time needed to half a volume of liquid

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a barrel filled with water and seeks to determine the time required for the barrel to lose half of its volume through a pipe at its base. The context includes fluid dynamics, specifically dealing with viscous flow and pressure differentials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of fluid dynamics equations, including pressure calculations and flow rates. There is an exploration of the relationship between the volume of water in the barrel and the volume flowing out through the pipe. Questions arise regarding the correct interpretation of variables and the setup of integrals for time calculation.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications on the definitions of variables and the implications of the flow rate. There is an ongoing exploration of the mathematical relationships involved, with no explicit consensus reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the definitions of volume in relation to the flow out of the barrel versus the volume remaining in the barrel. There is an acknowledgment of potential confusion regarding the limits of integration in the context of the problem.

DavideGenoa
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Homework Statement



A barrel, open on the top, full of water, has a radium ##R=0.25\text{ m}## and a height ##h=0.75\text{ m}##. At its base there is a hole where a pipe is attached. The pipe's length is ##\ell=1.0\text{ m}## and its radius ##r=0.0019\text{ m}##. I would like to find the time necessary for the barrel to lose half its content, if we know that the density of the liquid in the barrel is ##\rho=1.00\cdot 10^3\text{ kg/m}^3## and its viscosity ##\eta=2.5\cdot10^{-3}\text{ N sm}^{-2}##.

Homework Equations



I know the dependence of the pressure of a static fluid from its height ##h##:
##p=p_{\text{atm}}+\rho g h##,​
Bernoulli's equation, which I do not think to be useful in such a context where the liquid is viscous, and the formula for the volume flow rate in a pipe having radius ##r## and length ##\ell## with the difference of pressure ##\Delta p## at its ends
##Q=\frac{\pi r^4\Delta p}{8\eta \ell}##​

The Attempt at a Solution



I think that the pressure at the bottom of the barrel is ##p=p_{\text{atm}}+\rho g h##, where ##p_{\text{atm}}## is the external pressure, and the pressure at the exit of the pipe is ##p_{\text{atm}}##, therefore ##\Delta p=\rho g h##
##\frac{dV}{dt}=:Q=\frac{\pi r^4 \rho g h}{8\eta \ell}=\frac{\pi r^4 \rho g \frac{V}{\pi R^2}}{8\eta \ell}##​
The derivative of the inverse of ##t\mapsto V(t)## is
##\frac{dt}{dV}=\frac{1}{Q}=\frac{8\eta \ell R^2}{ r^4 \rho g V}##​
and the fundamental theorem of calculus would give
##t\big(\frac{V}{2}\big)-t(0)=\int_0^{V/2} \frac{dt(v)}{dv}dv=\int_0^{V/2}\frac{8\eta \ell R^2}{ r^4 \rho g v}dv##​
but this last integral diverges, which means that something went wrong, although I do not see where my error is...
I heartily thank you for any answer!
 
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dV/dt = - Q (note the negative sign)

The volume is decreasing. Also, the starting volume is not zero, it is V0.

Chet
 
Last edited:
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Thank you, Chestmiller! I understand your remark, but I intended ##V## to be the volume of water leaked out of the barrel.
The flow rate of the volume leaving the barrel is ##-Q## and the flow rate of the the volume filling the exterior is ##Q##. I mathematically see that ##\int_{0}^{V_0/2}\frac{1}{Q}dV=+\infty\ne-\int_{V_0}^{V_0/2}\frac{1}{Q}dV## but I think that ##-\int_{V_0}^{V_0/2}\frac{1}{Q}dV## is the time needed for the barrel to "go" from the full volume ##V_0## to its half ##V_0/2## (this integral is finite and I think it to be the correct answer to the exercise) while ##\int_{0}^{V_0/2}\frac{1}{Q}dV## should be the time needed for the exterior to "go" from a dry state to host half the full volume: ##V_0/2##. I have some trouble to understand the reason why the two integral are not identical... Thank you so much again!
 
Last edited:
DavideGenoa said:
I intended ##V## to be the volume of water leaked out of the barrel.
But that's not the way you used it when substituting for ##\Delta p##.
 
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I think I have understood now: the variable ##V=\pi R^2 h## in the integral is the volume of the water in the barrel, it is not the volume gone out of the pipe! :headbang:
Thank you both!
 

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