TV based education instead of Human teachers?

[Frenemy90210]

I have thinking about this issue quite a lot recently; Imagine a class of students where students don't ask any questions to teacher; All of the communication is only from teacher to students. ( I myself have attended such classes when I was a student.) In such class why teacher can not be replaced by TV playing pre-recorded video of lecture?. TV can be a big size, high resolution TV giving life like images. In the video, there can a FAQ section thus nullifying the need for students to ask the question. This will bring down the costs of education drastically at the same time giving worlds best education to the masses.

 

[Orodruin]

Imagine a class of students where students don't ask any questions to teacher;

This seems like a rather failed class. Either on the part of the students (for not asking) or the lecturer (for not allowing it) or both.

In such class why teacher can not be replaced by TV playing pre-recorded video of lecture?

Why would you need to gather the students in one room for this? What is happening today is teachers experimenting with pre-recorded lectures making them available for students on-demand. Also there is no requirement to have two hour long lectures in this way. Student attention diminishes after 10 minutes, so the lectures need to be interactive and preferably have tasks for students to complete in between lectures.

This does not eliminate the teacher-student interaction part. However, it allows the time when students have access to the teacher to be used in a more effective way, such as direct interaction with questions and problem solving.

 

[DrClaude]

You're basically describing a MOOC.

I think that the biggest problem with prerecorded lectures is attention. It is easier to concentrate an actual human being in the same room than one on screen. Also, the ability the ask questions during the lecture is also useful.

 

[tygerdawg]

Is already (sort of) happening. I'm relatively new to Academia after spending a career in Industry. I am experiencing a strong push, if not a coercive directive, from Administrators, to develop more & more online classes.

Granted, the online classes must follow certain formats and guidelines in an attempt to maintain consistent delivery and quality. But is always difficult to do for heavier Engineering courses. Feedback from students indicate that online courses are not so good or effective. Even with email, virtual office hours, etc., students still do not get a chance for immediate clarification and rapid test-and-feedback opportunities. And the prep required to launch an effective online experience is daunting.

Being the industry-skewed cynic that I am, I see this push for online as a method of maintaining the revenue stream and enhance operating funds (known as "profits" in Industry) in the Academic game. Use the power of the internet to de-emphasize the bricks-and-mortar paradigm of education. Do more with less. Generate more revenue by broadcasting the same course to many over the internet, not a couple dozen in a physical classroom. But I wonder if the quality of information transferral and learning is suffering.

 

[Andy Resnick]

This will bring down the costs of education drastically at the same time giving worlds best education to the masses.

This is a logical fallacy. It's attractive to people who know very little about teaching and learning, but any instructor knows that learning is not a passive one-way conversation.

 

[ISamson]

In my opinion you learn tons more from live lectures, because you can interrupt the teacher or professor with a question, which might not be in the FAQ section. It is just more satisfying and you learn much more!
A teacher could also grab the students' attention as required.

 

[Frenemy90210]

I think learning from online course on a laptop at home will be a very different experience compared to old fashion classroom along with other students to interact with only difference being teacher replaced by high-quality TV. I am also thinking of a humanoid robot with life like hand gestures and facial expressions to replace human. The only problem will be once again this can not be interactive. Students will benefit from talking to other students, can socialize, learn social skills just like a real school.

 

[symbolipoint]

This is a logical fallacy. It's attractive to people who know very little about teaching and learning, but any instructor knows that learning is not a passive one-way conversation.

This needs three more LIKEs.

 

[symbolipoint]

I think learning from online course on a laptop at home will be a very different experience compared to old fashion classroom along with other students to interact with only difference being teacher replaced by high-quality TV. I am also thinking of a humanoid robot with life like hand gestures and facial expressions to replace human. The only problem will be once again this can not be interactive. Students will benefit from talking to other students, can socialize, learn social skills just like a real school.

That reminds me of those webpage based online help&technical support systems which use an automated chat system to stupidly ask people for clarification about what they want to ask and then give bad answers which do not give the results of what the person has been asking.

 

[DS2C]

Online classes are actually not cheap at all. I took a Psychology class last semester and it was ~$400 more than in seat.

 

[Apple_Mango]

Kids learning from video tape should be a last resort if our country is low on budget.

 

[jtbell]

Video tape? What's that?

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I've seen distance learning done well and I've seen it done poorly. There's a lot more to it than replacing the lectures with videos. There are both challenges and opportunities. Since a computer is most likely involved in delivery of distance learning courses, there is a lot of opportunity to integrate and leverage technology.

But as many have mentioned, the ability to interact with a real live person and get questions answered is one key to a good course. But most of my focus in either (distance or in person) is how the student is actively engaged in problem solving. The point of any lecture, video, or presentation is to give them the tools and equip them to grow into success as they actively engage in problem solving. If the students cannot solve the problems, how well they can parrot back talking points from the lecture is irrelevant, learning has not occurred.

 

[Orodruin]

But most of my focus in either (distance or in person) is how the student is actively engaged in problem solving. The point of any lecture, video, or presentation is to give them the tools and equip them to grow into success as they actively engage in problem solving. If the students cannot solve the problems, how well they can parrot back talking points from the lecture is irrelevant, learning has not occurred.

This. What the teacher does is not the important issue. What matters is what the students do. If you have walked into a traditional lecture where students were attentively taking notes and at peak concentration for two hours, learning everything the teacher said without any other effort on their part - then you were probably dreaming.

 

[symbolipoint]

Online classes are actually not cheap at all. I took a Psychology class last semester and it was ~$400 more than in seat.

Interesting! So this new way to deliver education is how colleges can pull more money from students.

 

[DS2C]

Interesting! So this new way to deliver education is how colleges can pull more money from students.

Seems to be accurate. At my campus all tests (aside from upper division science and math courses) are taken in the testing center on computers. Some classes require you to take the test at home on your computer through a program, but while taking the test we are being recorded through webcam and microphone, as well as not being capable of having any other window tabs or programs open. I really dislike it honestly. I am more of a pencil and paper kind of guy.

 

[symbolipoint]

Seems to be accurate. At my campus all tests (aside from upper division science and math courses) are taken in the testing center on computers. Some classes require you to take the test at home on your computer through a program, but while taking the test we are being recorded through webcam and microphone, as well as not being capable of having any other window tabs or programs open. I really dislike it honestly. I am more of a pencil and paper kind of guy.

What is missing when systems are applied this way or this purpose is LEADERSHIP.

 

[DS2C]

What is missing when systems are applied this way or this purpose is LEADERSHIP.

Agreed. And for me personally, being in an actual classroom with an instructor and student peers is a highly conducive learning environment. The human aspect of it is an extremely important portion. Sitting in front of a computer screen at home is just bad form.

 

[Shreya Pandey]

Since this is a relatively new way of learning, we should weigh its pros and cons and look at it very objectively.

Pros:

• It's driven by their passion.
• You can choose from a wide variety of topics.
• It costs less than a real-world class.
• There's more flexibility -- a class can be short-term or long-term.
• Online learning can be a boon for shy kids.
• It also can be ideal for remotely located kids.
• If the class is recorded, you can rewind, fast-forward, and pause.

Cons:

• The quality varies.
• The lack of human interaction could contribute to a feeling of isolation.
• The format could lead to procrastinating or quitting early.
• You must be a self-directed learner.
• You may not be able to see everything demonstrated clearly -- and he or she can't move up to the front of the class.
• There's potential for inappropriate content.

There are online players like Coursera, CanopyLAB, Neostencil, DataCamp whose courses have been tremendously successful and helping students grow. This is something that is going to dominate the education space in the coming future and that is the reason why big players like Facebook is also investing in Online education

 

[gleem]

Cons:

• The quality varies.
• The lack of human interaction could contribute to a feeling of isolation.
• The format could lead to procrastinating or quitting early.
• You must be a self-directed learner.
• You may not be able to see everything demonstrated clearly -- and he or she can't move up to the front of the class.
• There's potential for inappropriate content

True, but most of these cons are also shared by live lectures especially the large service course lectures.

The video below reviews the history and impact of technology ( radio, TV, computers) on education. Technology while useful is not the total answer to a good educational system.

 

[symbolipoint]

One of the main problems with TV-based education is the difficulty or lack of interactivity.

 

[symbolipoint]

I am viewing that video from post #20. What is very notable and important, "...animations are fleeting...",

 

[ISamson]

I think TV education is good when you want to take some extra study or need help in an area. TV education is also great with distance and remote rural areas education as mentioned in post number 13. However traditional lectures will never end up looking up to TV education, they will always be better in my opinion. I think you always remember and take in more from lectures than watching TV.

 

[Frenemy90210]

True, but most of these cons are also shared by live lectures especially the large service course lectures.

The video below reviews the history and impact of technology ( radio, TV, computers) on education. Technology while useful is not the total answer to a good educational system.

The video is very to the point. However, when I said "TV based education:, this is what I had in mind.
- --- There will be still a school building with class rooms as before. Schools/Colleges will be exactly like before with the exception that teacher will be replaced a huge, high resolution TV with life like image, capable of showing the teacher's image from head to tow. There will also be a class co-ordinator present in the class, who keeps everything in check in a class room (taking roll calls, maintaining peace and discipline). This person does not need to be much educated, hence can be hired very cheap, may be at hourly rate (ex. people who work at Starbucks). The teacher in the video can be the best teacher in the world for the subject. ( Imagine Einstein himself teaching relativity, for example.) The video recording can be refined again and again in an iterative process, so that every sentence the teacher speaks can analysed beforehand for clarity purposes. Imagine such video being watched by a poor kid in rural India or africa. Such a class will also provide possibility for learning social skills by interacting with fellow students and class coordinator. -----------

For the student, what is the better option ?
A regular teacher, with *Possibility of interaction* during lecture or
Einstein (or some other world's best teacher) himself teaching the subject along with amazing animations/videos for almost free? Which one would you choose (even if you are in the developed world) ?

 

[symbolipoint]

The live, real teacher in the classroom WINS. Real interactivity at its best is when and where the actual students and the actual teacher are in class together. Students may (if allowed) interrupt to ask any questions during lecture time. All that TV stuff may work as a supplement.

 

[Frenemy90210]

The live, real teacher in the classroom WINS. Real interactivity at its best is when and where the actual students and the actual teacher are in class together. Students may (if allowed) interrupt to ask any questions during lecture time. All that TV stuff may work as a supplement.

I am not negating that, but I would like to mention one thing. Even in places like MIT or Harvard etc, most students usually don't ask the questions. This is evident from video recordings of MIT lectures on YT. For most students, for the most of the time, it is a one way communication from teacher to student.

 

[symbolipoint]

I am not negating that, but I would like to mention one thing. Even in places like MIT or Harvard etc, most students usually don't ask the questions. This is evident from video recordings of MIT lectures on YT. For most students, for the most of the time, it is a one way communication from teacher to student.

Unusual. My experience as student in many academic classes was not like what you described. More NORMAL in a classroom is a few questions asked from students.

 

[Frenemy90210]

Unusual. My experience as student in many academic classes was not like what you described. More NORMAL in a classroom is a few questions asked from students.

But do you think, there may be at least a few students who never ask questions, may be because they feel shy to speak up ? What do you think percentage of such students in class may be ?( in a typical class). I studied in Rice U., Houston, for some period. There were a few students who never used to ask questions. My most of the education was in India where rote learning is cultural. Hence in India one finds % of such students in a class higher, especially if class size is larger.

 

[symbolipoint]

But do you think, there may be at least a few students who never ask questions, may be because they feel shy to speak up ? What do you think percentage of such students in class may be ?( in a typical class). I studied in Rice U., Houston, for some period. There were a few students who never used to ask questions. My most of the education was in India where rote learning is cultural. Hence in India one finds % of such students in a class higher, especially if class size is larger.

Thanks for the cultural information. Regarding some percentage of students in a class who never ask a question, this is not important. The best teacher-directed class instruction allows for immediate, live interactivity in case/ for whichever students want clarification on any details.

 

[ZapperZ]

I have thinking about this issue quite a lot recently; Imagine a class of students where students don't ask any questions to teacher; All of the communication is only from teacher to students. ( I myself have attended such classes when I was a student.) In such class why teacher can not be replaced by TV playing pre-recorded video of lecture?. TV can be a big size, high resolution TV giving life like images. In the video, there can a FAQ section thus nullifying the need for students to ask the question. This will bring down the costs of education drastically at the same time giving worlds best education to the masses.

I'm going back to the very beginning here because people are talking over each other. There are actually TWO separate issues here, and unfortunately, this first post have mixed both of them.

The first is the issue on whether, IF the class is nothing more than merely students listening to lectures (i.e. a one-way communication), then isn't it better (cheaper) to simply replace the teacher with a recorded video?

The second is whether this methodology can give ".. worlds (sic) best education to the masses.."

I have no issue with the first, because it is obvious that one can simply produce a series of videos and then let students after students, year after year, watch those videos.

I disagree with the second conclusion, because many research on education has shown that this one-way, non-interactive means of communication isn't the BEST way to educate anyone.

Anyone who is involved in online or blended classes would have noticed this. There have been many research on educational methods on the best way to conduct these classes. ALL of the online lesson management interfaces include many features that allow for 2-way communications between instructors and students, often done live! Studies have shown that students engage more intently and retain a lot more important information in the presence of active guidance, especially when they encounter something they don't understand.

And then, of course, at the other end of the spectrum, we have Mazur's peer-instruction method, in which it is the antithesis of isolated, one-way delivery of lessons. Many schools are adopting this methodology as they see it being more effective and better than communicating the material to the students.

So already, this one-way communication is not the "best" form there is out there for education. And based on many studies, it may be one of the worst form of education.

Zz.

 

[symbolipoint]

ZapperZ, I just do not understand if you are making the point in favor or in opposition to the "TV recording" method of lesson delivery. I can ALMOST undrstand your discussion, and then it becomes uncertain. Try again! Were you saying what I was trying to say (like post #29), or were you saying something else?

 

[Frenemy90210]

ZapperZ, I just do not understand if you are making the point in favor or in opposition to the "TV recording" method of lesson delivery. I can ALMOST undrstand your discussion, and then it becomes uncertain. Try again! Were you saying what I was trying to say (like post #29), or were you saying something else?

I think he is saying that "He agrees that proposed method is cheaper but not better than interactive human teaching."

To which I say that the pre-recorded video will keep on improving through iterative process over the years, incorporating suggestions from world renowned experts and students themselves. Every doubt a student can have will be incorporated in the video through subsequent versions. (Version 10.0, for example will be a lot better than 1.0)

Now why such a video should not be able to answer students common doubts ? I think currently people are apprehensive about one-way teaching is because the course-material (video) does not go through such exhaustive iterations of improvements incorporating suggestions from world renowned experts. All the currently available videos are version 1.0.

 

[Andy Resnick]

[snip] because many research on education has shown that this one-way, non-interactive means of communication is the BEST way to educate anyone.
[snip]

Really hoping this is a typo...

 

[ZapperZ]

Really hoping this is a typo...

It is.

Zz.

 

[ZapperZ]

ZapperZ, I just do not understand if you are making the point in favor or in opposition to the "TV recording" method of lesson delivery. I can ALMOST undrstand your discussion, and then it becomes uncertain. Try again! Were you saying what I was trying to say (like post #29), or were you saying something else?

I thought I made it clear when I broke down the original post into two separate issues.

1. I am NOT in favor of video/one-way communication education.

2. If one-way communication is the ONLY means of education, then sure, a video lecture would save money.

I think he is saying that "He agrees that proposed method is cheaper but not better than interactive human teaching."

To which I say that the pre-recorded video will keep on improving through iterative process over the years, incorporating suggestions from world renowned experts and students themselves. Every doubt a student can have will be incorporated in the video through subsequent versions. (Version 10.0, for example will be a lot better than 1.0)

Now why such a video should not be able to answer students common doubts ? I think currently people are apprehensive about one-way teaching is because the course-material (video) does not go through such exhaustive iterations of improvements incorporating suggestions from world renowned experts. All the currently available videos are version 1.0.

Have you ever taught a class?

Just because something is said or written down, and even explained, doesn't mean the student WILL get it. I lost count how many times I've given students something, tell them explicitly what to do, and BAM, they make a mistake with it again! No matter how well you try to present the material, there will always, ALWAYS be questions. I see this all the time when the students have to learn from "pre-lectures" online videos. You get a whole spectrum of students with a whole spectrum of varying questions about the SAME video that they viewed.

So I will claim that it is a fallacy to think that one-way communication education is effective. In fact, research in education methodology have shown numerous evidence that it isn't!

Zz.

 

[Vanadium 50]

The amazing thing about this thread is the idea that this is a new thing, and the weakness of one-way instruction is also a brand new discovery. This goes back to the early 50's. Zz's question "Have you ever taught a class?" is particularly relevant - it's the first question that gets asked whenever this idea comes back from the dead.

 

[DS2C]

Never been in a class where students weren't regularly participating. Even in an english class I had that was 7:00 am. If I had to pay tuition to watch instructional videos I would stop going to school and just read the books on my own.

 

[gleem]

The video below shows one educator's experience why one way education techniques often fail.

 

[Andy Resnick]

The amazing thing about this thread is the idea that this is a new thing, and the weakness of one-way instruction is also a brand new discovery. This goes back to the early 50's. Zz's question "Have you ever taught a class?" is particularly relevant - it's the first question that gets asked whenever this idea comes back from the dead.

Yes, but it's also worth stating that distance learning has a long history. For example. the US Navy needed ways to provide content to sailors stationed on ships that were at sea for extended periods of time, and in that context it has largely been successful.

http://www.worldwidelearn.com/education-articles/history-of-distance-learning.html
https://www.seniornet.org/edu/art/history.html

 

[SciencewithDrJ]

I always gave my lectures as a question and answer session, leading my students slowly towards discovery. The impact was very strong and the ideas, concepts, research methods, were very effectively communicated. Science, after all, starts by asking questions about nature.