Twin Paradox with radioactive twins

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a modified version of the twin paradox involving radioactive samples instead of twins. Participants explore the implications of time dilation on the half-lives of these samples during high-speed travel and how this relates to the traditional twin paradox scenario. The conversation includes theoretical considerations, mathematical formulations, and interpretations of relativistic effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the traveling radioactive sample becomes more radioactive due to time dilation affecting its half-life, leading to a discrepancy in the number of radioactive atoms between the two samples.
  • Another participant presents the correct relativistic decay law, emphasizing the importance of defining half-life in the rest frame of the material.
  • Some participants challenge the assertion that the muon's half-life changes with its state of motion, arguing that it remains constant regardless of motion.
  • A participant suggests that the differential aging caused by differing paths through spacetime is the key factor rather than time dilation alone.
  • There are discussions about the proper use of coordinate times versus proper times in calculations, with some participants noting that mixing these can lead to incorrect conclusions.
  • Concerns are raised about whether the formulas discussed can accurately predict the behavior of muons in different frames of reference.
  • Some participants express confusion about the implications of using different types of time in the formulas and whether this affects the predictions for surviving muons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on several points, particularly regarding the effects of time dilation on half-lives and the correct application of relativistic formulas. There is no consensus on the implications of the modified twin paradox scenario or the appropriate mathematical treatment of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their assumptions and the potential for misinterpretation of terms like "relativistic half-life." The discussion also reflects the complexity of integrating different frames of reference in relativistic physics.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying relativistic physics, particularly in the context of time dilation, radioactive decay, and the twin paradox. It may also benefit individuals exploring the implications of different reference frames in experimental scenarios.

  • #31
PAllen said:
I’ve always considered that many muons are created at much lower altitude than 10 km, where the atmosphere is denser. However, looking at the density as a function of altitude, it does appear 10 km would be a reasonable median creation altitude. But there is also the question of muon energy. I think many are created with ##\gamma## greater than 5, some much greater (even over 100).
Actually, I just checked and found the average muon energy at creation is well over 4 GeV, which is a ##\gamma## of over 40. Thus, my statement was correct. For some reason, hyperphysics is using a plausible creation altitude, but a way too low energy. There are even substantial numbers of muons created with ##\gamma## of 40,000 or more.

[edit: as a further aside, I note that the cosmic ray muon spectrum is regularly measured out to 100 TEV, which corresponds to a ##\gamma## of 1 million. For such a muon, it would appear only 1 cm of atmosphere passed by before the ground hits.]
 
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  • #32
PAllen said:
Actually, I just checked and found the average muon energy at creation is well over 4 GeV, which is a ##\gamma## of over 40. Thus, my statement was correct. For some reason, hyperphysics is using a plausible creation altitude, but a way too low energy. There are even substantial numbers of muons created with ##\gamma## of 40,000 or more.

[edit: as a further aside, I note that the cosmic ray muon spectrum is regularly measured out to 100 TEV, which corresponds to a ##\gamma## of 1 million. For such a muon, it would appear only 1 cm of atmosphere passed by before the ground hits.]
And this page of hyperphysics has the correct number - no idea why the muon experiment page uses misleading numbers:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Particles/muonatm.html
 

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