Twinkie Defense, Step Aside: Caffeine Defense

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The discussion centers around the controversial use of caffeine and sleep deprivation as a defense in murder cases, likening it to the infamous "Twinkie defense." Participants express skepticism about the validity of such defenses, questioning whether substances like caffeine could genuinely drive someone to commit murder. There is debate over the potential for temporary insanity linked to various substances, including sugar and caffeine, with some arguing that emotional triggers might play a role. The conversation also touches on the legal implications of drug use and mental state, with a consensus that while caffeine can cause intoxication, it should not absolve individuals of responsibility for violent actions. The notion that caffeine could be a more palatable defense compared to harder drugs like methamphetamine is also discussed, highlighting societal perceptions of different substances. Overall, the thread reflects a critical view of the idea that common substances could lead to extreme behaviors such as murder.
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Pfft.. you know how many people died because I didn't get my morning coffee? :rolleyes:
 
Temporary insanity isn't a particularly new defense.
 
Hurkyl said:
Temporary insanity isn't a particularly new defense.

Heck, I've been using it for years.
 
This is rediculous. Please, jury, don't be stupid
 
Is is possible that some people could be susceptible to various drugs in this way - that sugar really can drive a few people in a mllion, to murder; for others, it's caffeine, and maybe MSG or peanuts for others?

Can allergies drive a person into a state of temporary insanity?
 
Oh please. Too much caffeine?
 
Ivan Seeking said:
Is it possible that some people could be susceptible to various drugs in this way - that sugar really can drive a few people in a mllion, to murder; for others, it's caffeine, and maybe MSG or peanuts for others?

I really hope you're kidding. If this was true many, many more people would be murdering.
 
DR13 said:
I really hope you're kidding. If this was true many, many more people would be murdering.
Maybe they are but they don't have a coniving lawyer drumming up a bogus defense for them.
 
  • #10
DR13 said:
I really hope you're kidding. If this was true many, many more people would be murdering.

Not necessarily. I'm not saying such a thing is possible, but, if it is, then it might be a matter of circumstance - perhaps a trigger of some sort is needed, perhaps an emotional trigger. We would have to know if and how such a thing is possible in order to speculate on the specifics.

Beyond that, if it is possible, perhaps this could explain some percentage of existing convictions. We can't assume it doesn't happen in order to conclude that it can't.
 
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  • #11
From my point of view, a child's rage is a form of temporary insanity. I don't know the current thinking, but the last time I checked, feeding a kid sugar was considered a good way to trigger a problem.
 
  • #12
Caffeine intoxication

Main symptoms of caffeine intoxication.[77]An acute overdose of caffeine usually in excess of about 300 milligrams, dependent on body weight and level of caffeine tolerance, can result in a state of central nervous system over-stimulation called caffeine intoxication (DSM-IV 305.90),[101


In cases of much larger overdoses, mania, depression, lapses in judgment, disorientation, disinhibition, delusions, hallucinations, and psychosis may occur, and rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue) can be provoked.[102][103]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine
 
  • #13
Ivan Seeking said:
From my point of view, a child's rage is a form of temporary insanity. I don't know the current thinking, but the last time I checked, feeding a kid sugar was considered a good way to trigger a problem.
I've also seen studies where half of the children were given sugar and half were given a placebo, and the parents observed "sugar induced hyperactivity" in as many or more of the placebo fed children.

The children, parents and researchers involved in the studies never knew which children were given which diets (this is known as a "double-blind" study and helps to prevent unconscious biases from affecting the results).

An analysis of the results of all these studies was published in the November 22, 1995, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association. The researchers' conclusions? Sugar in the diet did not affect the children's behavior.

http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/children/9911/22/diet.sugar.myth.kids.wmd/
 
  • #14
Ivan Seeking said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine
But the article also states that he'd need to ingest, in a relatively short timeframe
roughly 80 to 100 cups of coffee for an average adult taken within a limited time frame
If he indeed had an overdose this significant, he'd likely have ended up in the ER. I didn't read that he was actually tested to have had an overdose or that was treated medically. I'm wondering if there is another article that shows there is medical evidence that backs up this guy had such a an overdose at the time of the murder and that backs up his lawyer's claim?
 
  • #15
There's a wrinkle in this story. Smith's lawyer initially wanted to rely on a temporary insanity plea (citing the high caffeine use), but now he is saying that Smith's confession is inadmissible because Smith was "out of it" due to sleep deprivation cause by caffeine use.
 
  • #16
cronxeh said:
pfft.. You know how many people died because i didn't get my morning coffee? :rolleyes:

7 ?
 
  • #17
caffeine itself, i'd say no. sleep deprivation could be a definite yes. modafinil can cause psychosis with no direct stimulation at all.
 
  • #18
Proton Soup said:
caffeine itself, i'd say no. sleep deprivation could be a definite yes. modafinil can cause psychosis with no direct stimulation at all.

True, but so can methamphetamine or cocaine, and intoxication due to either isn't a defense for murder. One chooses to take a drug, be it caffeine or cocaine, and if that drives you to a psychotic state, you get to live with the consequences.


Anyway, I was pretty sure you folks would enjoy this one, I know it made me laugh out loud.
 
  • #19
nismaratwork said:
True, but so can methamphetamine or cocaine, and intoxication due to either isn't a defense for murder. One chooses to take a drug, be it caffeine or cocaine, and if that drives you to a psychotic state, you get to live with the consequences.


Anyway, I was pretty sure you folks would enjoy this one, I know it made me laugh out loud.

it wouldn't surprise me if methamphetimine turns out to be the actual cause. it may be that caffeine is just a friendlier defense. meth became popular at one time because it allowed blue collar folks to work 2 or 3 jobs at once. but juries would not be sympathetic to meth use. meth = bad. caffeine = good, good people use caffeine. so the argument becomes this is a good guy trying to do well for himself, and then something unfortunate happens.
 
  • #20
Proton Soup said:
it wouldn't surprise me if methamphetimine turns out to be the actual cause. it may be that caffeine is just a friendlier defense. meth became popular at one time because it allowed blue collar folks to work 2 or 3 jobs at once. but juries would not be sympathetic to meth use. meth = bad. caffeine = good, good people use caffeine. so the argument becomes this is a good guy trying to do well for himself, and then something unfortunate happens.

Now THAT, I can believe.
 

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