Two Masses on a Massed Pulley and a variation

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on solving physics problems involving two masses on a massed pulley, specifically calculating linear acceleration, angular acceleration, and tension in the system. The first scenario involves masses m_1 = 3.6 kg, m_2 = 1.7 kg, and a pulley mass m_3 = 2.2 kg with a radius R = 0.15 m. The derived formula for linear acceleration is a = 2g(m_1 - m_2) / (2m_1 + 2m_2 + m_3). The second scenario introduces a sphere rolling without sliding, with specific parameters for the sphere, pulley, and hoop, requiring similar analytical approaches to derive the equations of motion.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Newton's laws of motion
  • Familiarity with rotational dynamics and torque
  • Knowledge of moment of inertia calculations for different shapes
  • Ability to manipulate algebraic equations for solving physics problems
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the moment of inertia for various shapes, including disks and spheres
  • Learn about the relationship between linear and angular acceleration in rotational systems
  • Explore advanced problems involving pulleys and multiple masses in dynamics
  • Investigate the effects of friction in rolling motion scenarios
USEFUL FOR

Students studying physics, particularly those focusing on mechanics, as well as educators looking for problem-solving strategies involving pulleys and rotational dynamics.

Esragoria
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
1a. Homework Statement
Hi all, I'm having quite a bit of problem on a physics question. I've seen some examples of this problem, but when I follow the suggestions and equations out, the answer I get back is wrong...

Anyways, here's the problem:
Given two masses (m_1,~m_2) hanging from opposite sides of a solid disk-shaped pulley of known mass and radius (m_3,~R) from a massless string, determine linear acceleration, angular acceleration of the pulley, the tension between the pulley and each of the two hanging masses and a few other things that I think I can work out on my own. I've attached a picture for reference.

I'd like to figure out how to solve this generally, but if it helps here are the masses and radii:m_1 = 3.6\text{ kg} m_2 = 1.7 \text{ kg} m_3 =2.2 \text{ kg} R = 0.15 \text{ m}

1b.
The variation replaces one of the masses with a sphere rolling without sliding on a flat surface. I've included a picture of this problem as reference. For this problem we are given the mass and radius of the sphere (m_s,~r_s), the mass and radius of the solid disk-shaped pulley (m_d,~r_d), and the mass and the radius of the hoop (which I have been treating as just a point mass because it appears to have no rotation) (m_h,~r_h).

Again, I'd like to figure this out generally, but here are the values given: $$m_s=3.2\text{ kg},~r_s=0.2\text{ m}$$ $$m_d=1.8\text{ kg},~r_d=0.09\text{ m}$$ $$m_h=2.4\text{ kg},~r_h=0.15\text{ m}$$

Homework Equations


The equations I'm working with for 1a are: $$\vec{\tau}=\vec{R} \times \vec{F}= RT = I \alpha $$ $$a=R \alpha$$ $$I_\text{disk}= \frac{1}{2}mR^2$$
For 1b I'm also using: $$I_s= \frac{2}{5}mR^2$$


The Attempt at a Solution


Assuming downward acceleration to be negative:
##F_\text{net},_1 = m_1 a = T_1 - m_1 g ## resulting in a negative acceleration for ##m_1##​
##F_\text{net},_2 = m_2 a = T_2 - m_2 g ## resulting in a positive acceleration for ##m_2##​
Solving both for tension, I get: $$T_1=m_1a+m_1g$$ and $$T_2=m_2a+m_2g$$
Additionally I have: $$\tau_\text{net}=I \alpha = RT_\text{net} = RT_1 - RT_2$$
Substituting in ##T_1 ,~ T_2,~\alpha=\frac{a}{R},~I_\text{disk}=\frac{1}{2}m_3 R^2 ##: $$\frac{1}{2}m_3 R^2 (\frac{a}{R}) = Rm_1 a + Rm_1 g - Rm_2 g - Rm_2 a$$
Simplifying out: $$a = 2g \frac{m_1 - m_2}{2m_2+m_3 - 2m_1}$$
and this is where I'm stuck. When I plug the numbers in, the online answer program is saying I'm wrong. I also simplified out using ##m_2 a=m_2g -T_2## resulting in: $$a = 2g \frac{m_1 - m_2}{m_3-2m_2 - 2m_1}$$ and ##T_1=m_1g-m_1a## resulting in: $$a = 2g \frac{m_1 - m_2}{m_3-2m_2 + 2m_1}$$ and these were both wrong

For 1b, I did essentially the same thing, except making down positive: $$\tau_s=I_s\alpha$$ $$\tau_h=R_dT_h$$ $$T_h=m_ha+m_h$$ $$\tau_\text{net}=\tau_s-\tau_h$$ Simplifying and substituting, I get: $$a=\frac{r_dm_hg}{\frac{2}{5}m_sr_s-r_d(m_h-\frac{m_d}{2})}$$ which is wrong.

Help would be appreciated!
 

Attachments

  • Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 8.04.41 PM.png
    Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 8.04.41 PM.png
    1.9 KB · Views: 525
  • Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 9.29.30 PM.png
    Screen shot 2012-11-05 at 9.29.30 PM.png
    1.2 KB · Views: 516
Physics news on Phys.org
Esragoria said:
##F_\text{net},_1 = m_1 a = T_1 - m_1 g ## resulting in a negative acceleration for ##m_1##​
##F_\text{net},_2 = m_2 a = T_2 - m_2 g ## resulting in a positive acceleration for ##m_2##​
These two accelerations mean different things. Either give them separate names or (easier) change the sign of one so that they refer to the same thing. It has led you to get the wrong sign on a term in your answer. I think the rest of the working is OK.
 
Herp derp, I can't add. Just reworked it using the right signs and it ended up right. Thanks.
Ended up with $$a=2g\frac{m_1-m_2}{2m_1+2m_2+m_3}$$
I'll try doing the right math with the variation problem.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
4K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
Replies
13
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
10K
Replies
6
Views
4K