Two of Breivik's victims: Can he be charged for pre-meditated homicide?

[arildno]

Anders (not the monster) became only 18.
As he and two friends tried two hide from the shooter they heard, they tried to secure a place on a mountain ledge, but Anders slipped and fell 10 meters onto the stony shore.
He was killed by that accident.

Håkon became only 17.
Håkon was not a very good swimmer, and in addition, he was recovering from kissers' disease, i.e, mono-nucleosis. However, finding his situation desperate, he dared the jump into the lake, but drowned.

That Anders Breivik clearly is guilty of:
1) Murderous attempt on the boys' lives
2) Inciting fear into these boys so that their own actions lead them into fatal accidents
is judicially fairly clear.

But, is this sufficient grounds to nail pre-meditated homicide of these two boys onto Breivik?

Personally, I'm a bit unsure, but hope that the discussion (and not least the trial) WILL find him guilty of having murdered those two (along with an awful lot of others)

 

[Ken Natton]

Firstly arildno, I hesitate to patronise you, but I want to suggest to you that the amount you have been posting about this whole situation begins to be of concern. I don’t pretend to imagine what a trauma this has been for the Norwegian people, and I seek to pass no judgement on you. Let me only say this – if you allow this event to dominate your thoughts too much, then you allow Breivik to achieve exactly what he must not be allowed to achieve. I liked what the Norwegian Prime Minister said and what some of those young members of the Norwegian Labour Party who were actually on Utoeya Island said – what Breivik did changes precisely nothing.

If you were to isolate the two cases you highlight, and imagine that those were the only two lives that had been lost, I think it becomes clear that Breivik’s actions are easily sufficient for him to face charges, and to expect to be convicted of those charges, relating to those cases. Though he did not specifically kill these two individuals, there is not much doubt that they would not have acted as they did but for his actions. His culpability, it seems to me, is not difficult to establish.

And it is clear enough to me that, however many other murders he may be convicted of, it diminishes not one bit the importance that he is properly charged and convicted of the killings of these two boys as well.

 

[arildno]

As for your concern for me, I'm sure it is well-meant, but I notice I am gradually renormalizing.
In order for you to get the magnitude of this disaster for Norway, consider the following statistics:
In 2000, the number of murders in the US was about 15.000.
If all the 3000 deaths in 9/11 2001 should be classified as murder, this horror would on itself constitute an increase of 20% in the annual murder statistic.

Now, the typical number of annual murders in Norway is..30.
Breivik's 77 murders will make 2011 a VERY bad year, indeed.

THAT is how bad this massacre has hit us.

Just about everyone here either knows someone who was there, or has that knowledge in 2.degree (i.e, knows someone who knows someone who was there).
Personally, I am in the 1.degree and knew one of the murdered victims.
She became 18 years old.

So yes, this case has hit me very deeply, indeed, but I know I'm on the mend.

Thank you for your sound reflections on this, and on the issue I posted.