U.S. Naval Research Lab develops transparent aluminum

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the development of "transparent aluminum" by the U.S. Naval Research Lab, exploring its implications, properties, and comparisons to materials like sapphire and aluminum oxide. Participants engage in a mix of technical reasoning, cultural references to science fiction, and debates over terminology and definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express excitement about the concept of transparent aluminum, linking it to science fiction and its potential applications.
  • Several participants challenge the terminology, asserting that the material in question is a ceramic compound rather than aluminum, which leads to discussions about the accuracy of the term "transparent aluminum."
  • There are differing opinions on the comparison of sapphire to transparent aluminum, with some arguing that sapphire has properties similar to the fictional material, while others dispute this analogy.
  • One participant mentions that spinel and aluminum oxynitride (AlON) have been referred to as "transparent aluminum" and discusses their cost and potential applications in armor.
  • Participants engage in playful banter regarding the definitions and properties of materials, referencing cultural elements from "Star Trek" and the implications of poetic license in language.
  • Discussions also touch on the historical context of the term and its usage in popular culture, with references to specific quotes from "Star Trek."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the terminology used to describe the material, with multiple competing views on whether it can be accurately called "transparent aluminum." The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of this terminology and the comparisons made between different materials.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the article lacks clarity on what is new about the development of transparent aluminum, suggesting that previous materials have been referred to by the same name. The discussion reveals a dependence on definitions and the nuances of language in scientific discourse.

davenn
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
9,725
Reaction score
11,821
All the scifi geeks will get this

yet again scifi becomes reality

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/us-naval-...ransparent-aluminum?eid=223056823&bid=1229250

just a little hint :wink:

...Transparent aluminum ? ...
that's the ticket laddie ...
it would take year just to figure out the dynamics of this matrix ...
yes, but you would be rich beyond the dreams of Everest ...
now is that worth something to you, or should I just push clear ?decided to put this in here rather than engineeringcheers
Dave
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Borg
Engineering news on Phys.org
Sometimes I think that science fiction is the engine that drives science. :wideeyed:
 
Borg said:
Sometimes I think that science fiction is the engine that drives science. :wideeyed:

uh huh ... I suspect much truth in that statement
 
Dave, your title is very misleading. This is not aluminum at all. It is a ceramic compound. Very neat but still, not aluminum.
 
phinds said:
Dave, your title is very misleading. This is not aluminum at all. It is a ceramic compound. Very neat but still, not aluminum.
... so no one will be abduct some whales.
 
I like to think of sapphire as transparent aluminum.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: billy_joule
jackwhirl said:
I like to think of sapphire as transparent aluminum.
Why would you like to think something that obviously isn't true?
 
phinds said:
Why would you like to think something that obviously isn't true?
Isn't sapphire just rusty aluminium? ##Al_2O_3##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: billy_joule and jackwhirl
phinds said:
Why would you like to think something that obviously isn't true?
Because I enjoyed Star Trek IV as a child, it pleases me to utilize a definition less stringent than yours. Why should I not?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: davenn
  • #10
jackwhirl said:
Because I enjoyed Star Trek IV as a child, it pleases me to utilize a definition less stringent than yours. Why should I not?
Ah. Poetic license. OK.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: davenn
  • #11
jackwhirl said:
I like to think of sapphire as transparent aluminum.

That's rather odd. I can understand if you say "aluminum OXIDE". But saying that it is the same as aluminum is like saying that common table salt is sodium. Would you swallow sodium?

Zz.
 
  • #12
ZapperZ said:
That's rather odd. I can understand if you say "aluminum OXIDE". But saying that it is the same as aluminum is like saying that common table salt is sodium. Would you swallow sodium?

Zz.
I would swallow hydrogen oxide rather than hydrogen chloride!
 
  • #13
fresh_42 said:
I would swallow hydrogen oxide rather than hydrogen chloride!

Well, good for you, but that really wasn't my question, was it? I'm sure there are infinite number of things you'd rather swallow instead of something else.

Zz.
 
  • #14
ZapperZ said:
That's rather odd. I can understand if you say "aluminum OXIDE". But saying that it is the same as aluminum is like saying that common table salt is sodium. Would you swallow sodium?
I don't think that is a particularly fair comparison. Sapphire has properties like the fictional transparent aluminum and is made out of aluminum. Elemental sodium has properties that make it very much not like table salt.
 
  • #15
jackwhirl said:
I don't think that is a particularly fair comparison. Sapphire has properties like the fictional transparent aluminum and is made out of aluminum. Elemental sodium has properties that make it very much not like table salt.

"fictional transparent aluminum"? Oh sorry, I didn't realize that we were comparing something with a unicorn.

Al2O3 has more "O" in it than "Al". So if we are counting on composition, one has more legitimacy to say that is made out of oxygen than aluminum.

But this is neither here nor there. It is a different beast entirely than aluminum and share little to no characteristics of aluminum.

Zz.
 
  • #16
ZapperZ said:
"fictional transparent aluminum"? Oh sorry, I didn't realize that we were comparing something with a unicorn.
OP was clearly referring to such.
ZapperZ said:
Al2O3 has more "O" in it than "Al". So if we are counting on composition, one has more legitimacy to say that is made out of oxygen than aluminum.
By number of atoms, sure. Not by mass.
 
  • #17
jackwhirl said:
I don't think that is a particularly fair comparison. Sapphire has properties like the fictional transparent aluminum and is made out of aluminum. Elemental sodium has properties that make it very much not like table salt.

Agree with you jackwhirl, not a fair comparison. Though better than one I got from them recently; noticing a pattern.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: fresh_42
  • #18
fresh_42 said:
I would swallow hydrogen oxide rather than hydrogen chloride!
As in ##H_2O_2##? (Also known as hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to di-hydrogen monoxide, or more familiarly, ##H_2O##.)
 
  • #19
Spinel and AlON have both been referred to as "transparent aluminum" and have been around for a while. I'm not sure what's really new from the article, which is not clear about it. Maybe, it is a newer, cheaper way to make the stuff. "Transparent aluminum" as a name is playing fast and loose with the language, but if lots of different alloys can still be called "aluminum" with a modifying adjective, then it follows the same trend to do it with metal ceramics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride

We've done a lot of testing with AlON over the past few years. It is very expensive, like $1k for a plate 6"x6"x0.25". It is a good candidate for transparent armor in several applications, but its cost is the biggest factor limiting adoption. A manufacturing process to make either Spinel of AlON much more cost effective would be a welcome advance.
 
  • #20
Mark44 said:
As in ##H_2O_2##? (Also known as hydrogen peroxide, as opposed to di-hydrogen monoxide, or more familiarly, ##H_2O##.)
neither; ##HO## :wink:
 
  • #21
phinds said:
Dave, your title is very misleading. This is not aluminum at all. It is a ceramic compound. Very neat but still, not aluminum.

still got aluminium in it :wink: and that was the whole point
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Imager and OmCheeto
  • #22
phinds said:
Ah. Poetic license. OK.

yes lots of poetic license :wink:
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: fresh_42
  • #23
davenn said:
still got aluminium in it :wink: and that was the whole point
Hey! Don't bother me. I'm practicing being an anal nitpicking a-hole.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Imager and fresh_42
  • #24
fresh_42 said:
... so no one will be abduct some whales.
I'm not quite sure what you meant up above?... but something seems to have provoked a "snark" attack... lol
 
Last edited:
  • #25
davenn said:
still got aluminium in it :wink: and that was the whole point
There appear to be lots of ways to make transparent aluminum.
The Trekkian formulation was: Ag2H6Al3


Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
t = 1:59
transparent.aluminum.jpg

TM & © Paramount (1986)
​
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: davenn
  • #26
OCR said:
I'm not quite sure what you meant up above?... but something seems to have provoked a "snark" attack... lol

did you not see the movie ?
 
  • #27
OCR said:
I'm not quite sure what you meant up above?... but something seems to have provoked a "snark" attack... lol
yep, that had been lousy of me
 
  • #28
davenn said:
...Transparent aluminum ? ...
that's the ticket laddie ...
it would take year just to figure out the dynamics of this matrix ...
yes, but you would be rich beyond the dreams of Everest ...
now is that worth something to you, or should I just push clear ?

"Everest" instead "Avarice"?
 
  • #29
Imager said:
"Everest" instead "Avarice"?

McCoy used Everest ... maybe referring to some fictional person in the ST world ?

I had to google avarice ... which isn't the name for a person

NOUN
  1. extreme greed for wealth or material gain.
which would describe a person

Dave
 
  • #30
Imager is correct. It is avarice.
 

Similar threads

White Paper on Revolutionary Technology - X-FORCE
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K