Ultrasonic Welding Help - PC Troubleshooting

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges and considerations of using ultrasonic welding for polycarbonate parts, particularly in comparison to solvent welding. Participants are exploring various aspects of ultrasonic welding technology, its applications, and alternative methods for joining materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant is seeking assistance with ultrasonic welding for polycarbonate parts, having experience with solvent welding acrylic.
  • Another participant explains that ultrasonic welding involves thermal welding through friction and suggests consulting manufacturers for specific guidance.
  • A suggestion is made to contact manufacturers of ultrasonic welding machines for tailored advice on applications.
  • Concerns are raised about the high costs associated with ultrasonic welding for prototype projects, emphasizing the need for specialized equipment and expertise in tuning the welding machine.
  • One participant notes the complexity of achieving successful ultrasonic welds, describing it as a "dark art" and considering alternative methods due to cost and accessibility issues.
  • Another participant proposes mechanical joints as a potential solution to avoid issues associated with glued and welded assemblies.
  • A later reply indicates that mechanical joints are not a viable option for the original poster due to re-tooling costs and specific joint requirements.
  • Questions are raised about the causes of overheating or cracking of ultrasonic horns, with requests for specific instances of these issues.
  • Further inquiry is made regarding the fabrication of the ultrasonic horns and holding fixtures in relation to the overheating and cracking problems mentioned.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and practicality of ultrasonic welding, with some considering it too costly and complex for their needs, while others emphasize its advantages. There is no consensus on the best approach, and multiple competing views remain regarding the methods for joining materials.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the cost of ultrasonic welding equipment, the need for specialized tuning, and the specific requirements for joint sealing and durability. There are also unresolved questions regarding the technical issues of overheating and cracking of ultrasonic horns.

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I'm exploring Ultrasonic Welding as an alternative to solvent welding of some polycarbonate parts...looking for someone with some knowledge in this arena. I'm very familiar with solvent welding acrylic, but PC is giving me troubles. Anyone willing to help me out?
 
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As you probably already know, Ultrasonic Welding is just thermal welding with the heat supplied by the friction between the two parts being welded. So you have to figure out how to Ultrasonically move one of the pieces, perhaps a filler rod, while applying a fair amount of pressure to increase frictional heating.

I hope some more knowledgeable folks will come up with more specifics.

Talk to some of the manufacturers. A Search returns 145 000 hits.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ultrasonic+welder+plastic
 
Ultrasonic welding is a very expensive approach for the prototype project. Large companies can afford to put aside an expensive welder for trial work. Then their R&D staff have to design a horn and jig to concentrate the wave onto the joined surface ie the sonic horn is designed to concentrate the wave and the jig is designed to reflect the wave (like a mirror) back into the joined part and actually combine the initial and the reflected waves at the depth distance of the joint where the ultrasonic energy is focused and heats up the material to its melting point. If you try to use any old jig and horn, you will simply pump lots of ultrasonic energy into the whole part and simply warm one or both pieces up, but without concentrating the energy, no melting will take place.
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This is excellent technology to seal electronics, no mess, no excess glues, the product is sealed from repair by unauthorized tinkering. It's an expensive method, but cheap in volume. Tuning an engineered horn (one specifically designed for the housing) still needs to be done by a floor technician with experience. ie often you still need to make several adjustments to the welding machine, even though YOU know the jig and horn are supposed to weld. Often, even an experienced tech will burn the surface of the item (smooth out or melt the exterior) until he gets the welders settings and proper pressures to weld at the depth of the joint.
 
Yes I've heard it's a bit of a "dark art" technique to get it just right - @CalcNerd what you are saying helps me a lot.

Right now I'm exploring a few other possible options as UW seems a bit cost-prohibitive, and without being able to find someone locally who has one that I can experiment with, the up front cost for something that may not work is a bit of a gamble. So I'm looking at either a combination of UV cured adhesvie + solvent welding (to keep the joint blushing to a minimum) or switching to PETG injected parts which don't have the blushing issue and are solvent weldable.
 
Have you considered mechanical joints ? Snap together joining systems eliminate many of the problems of glued and welded part assemblies .
 
This is not an option for me. 1) would require re-tooling at quite an expense 2) joint needs to be sealed water tight (but not pressure tight) 3) joint needs to be durable
 
what is the cause of over heating or cracking of ultrasonic horn?
thanks!
 
rowell said:
what is the cause of over heating or cracking of ultrasonic horn?
thanks!
Welcome to the PF.

Can you say where you have seen these issues?
 
  • #10
In plastic ultrasonic welding process.
 
  • #11
You have seen overheating and cracking? Who did the fabrication of the horns and holding fixtures?

http://www.ultrasonicsolutions.in/images/ultrasonic_tech3.jpg
ultrasonic_tech3.jpg
 

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