Uncovering the Derivative of a Tensor: Understanding its Equations and Origins

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    Derivative Tensor
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical derivation of a tensor's derivative, focusing on the equations involved and the origins of each term. Participants explore the application of the chain rule, product rule, and the properties of vector components in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the first equal sign in the equations, seeking clarification on the origin of each derivative.
  • Another participant asserts that the chain rule and transformation properties of vector components explain the relationships in the equations.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the correctness of the second equal sign, specifically why one term has only one derivative.
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of the second equal sign, suggesting the application of the product rule and explaining how the first term results from the derivative acting on the vector component.
  • One participant challenges the idea of cancellation between operators, presenting their interpretation of the derivatives involved and questioning the uniqueness of the dependence of vector components.
  • A later reply clarifies that the cancellation discussed pertains to the second term, not the first, and acknowledges the role of the Kronecker delta in the transformation of indices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement, particularly regarding the cancellation of derivatives and the correctness of the equal signs. No consensus is reached on the interpretation of the mathematical operations involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of operator behavior in derivatives, the dependence on specific definitions of tensor components, and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps discussed.

mk9898
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How/why does the first equal sign hold? Where does each derivative come from:
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Its just the chain rule and the transformation properties of the vector components.
 
Ahh they just switched the two chain rule derivatives. Got it. Thank you. Another question: is the second equal sign correct? Why does the first term only have one derivative?
 
The second equal sign is correct. Apply the product rule. The first term arises from the derivative acting on the vector component and the derivatives outside cancelling (another instance of the chain rule).
 
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I'm not seeing how they cancel since they are operators.

Here is what I see:

##\frac{\partial \tilde x^k}{\partial x^i}\frac{\partial^2 x^i}{\partial \tilde x^k \partial \tilde x^l}##But since they are operators, I don't see how the two can cancel each other out and the fact it's the derivative squared so we cannot move one of derivatives to the right and let them somehow cancel out like so:

##\frac{\partial \tilde x^k}{\partial x^i}\frac{\partial x^i \partial}{\partial \tilde x^k \partial \tilde x^l}##

Is it due to the uniqueness of the dependence of the vector components that they are the inverse of one another?
 
mk9898 said:
I'm not seeing how they cancel since they are operators.
That is the second term, not the first term...
 
Ah got it. Yea it's just then the Kronecker delta and the k's become l's. Got it thanks!
 
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