Uncovering the Error in Finding the Mobius Transformation for a Circle Mapping

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a Mobius transformation that maps the circle defined by |z|=1 to another circle defined by |z+2|=1, with specific mappings for the points T(-1)=-3 and T(i)=-1. Participants express confusion regarding the nature of the transformation and its implications for the mapping of arcs between the two circles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the properties of Mobius transformations, questioning how a mapping from a quarter arc to a half arc can occur. They discuss the implications of the transformation being a bijection and express concerns about visualizing the transformation's effects on the arcs.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into the nature of Mobius transformations and the possibility of mapping points between circles. There is an ongoing exploration of the visualization challenges and the mechanics of how transformations can stretch angles and alter the relative positions of points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential misunderstanding of the transformation's behavior, particularly in relation to the mapping of arcs and the implications of the transformation being a bijection. There is mention of the need for additional points to define the transformation fully.

mimsy57
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I'm looking for the error in my understanding here, not help with the problem itself. I'm making some kind of mistake, so I've listed out everything I think I know, and I'm hoping someone can either tell me what I'm misunderstanding, or tell me there is an error in the problem statement:

Problem Statement: find the Mobius transformation taking the circle |z|=1 to |z+2|=1 such that T(-1)=-3 and T(i)=-1.

What I think:

*Both the circle and its image have radius 1, with the first centered at the origin and the second at -2.

*The additional points we are given mappings for are -1 and i, which are the endpoints to an arc of a quarter circle. These are mapping to -3 and -1 which are the bounds for the half circle. This implies the mapping is going around twice for once around the circle being mapped, which would imply it is not a bijection, and Mobius transformations are bijections.
 
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mimsy57 said:
I'm looking for the error in my understanding here, not help with the problem itself. I'm making some kind of mistake, so I've listed out everything I think I know, and I'm hoping someone can either tell me what I'm misunderstanding, or tell me there is an error in the problem statement:

Problem Statement: find the Mobius transformation taking the circle |z|=1 to |z+2|=1 such that T(-1)=-3 and T(i)=-1.

What I think:

*Both the circle and its image have radius 1, with the first centered at the origin and the second at -2.

*The additional points we are given mappings for are -1 and i, which are the endpoints to an arc of a quarter circle. These are mapping to -3 and -1 which are the bounds for the half circle. This implies the mapping is going around twice for once around the circle being mapped, which would imply it is not a bijection, and Mobius transformations are bijections.

Sure you can do it. You can map any three points in the complex plane to any other three points with a Mobius transformation, right? Just pick a third point on each of the two circles and that will fix a transformation. I haven't tried to visualize it in terms of dilations, rotations, etc.
 
Yes about the three points. My problem isn't so much with that, I'm okay calculating it, I'm just bothered by how it can work.

If I translate a circle, rotate a circle, or dilate a circle, or invert a circle, I don't see how points on a quarter arc could move to a half arc. Does my visualization problem make sense? I have to be understanding something incorrectly. Maybe inversion since the other three are so simple to visualize.

I tried finding examples, but in every example, the points stay in the same relative (for lack of a better word) location
 
mimsy57 said:
Yes about the three points. My problem isn't so much with that, I'm okay calculating it, I'm just bothered by how it can work.

If I translate a circle, rotate a circle, or dilate a circle, or invert a circle, I don't see how points on a quarter arc could move to a half arc. Does my visualization problem make sense? I have to be understanding something incorrectly. Maybe inversion since the other three are so simple to visualize.

I tried finding examples, but in every example, the points stay in the same relative (for lack of a better word) location

Yes, it's inversions. Replace |z+2|=1 with, say |z+100|=99. It should be visually clear that most of the points on the circle map to points near 0. z=(-1) and points nearby don't. It stretches angles on the circle. It's a good thing to visualize, keep it up!
 
Last edited:
Thanks!
 

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