Understanding Definite Integrals: Tips and Examples for Beginners

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of definite integrals, particularly in the context of understanding their application in calculating distance from velocity and the relationship between differentiation and integration. Participants explore examples and clarify misconceptions related to these mathematical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving a particle thrown into the air, questioning how to calculate the distance traveled using definite integrals of velocity over time.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the derivative of a definite integral, questioning why it is stated that \(\frac{d}{dx} \int_{a}^{x} f(t)dt = f(x)\) when the integral represents a number.
  • A participant explains that the upper bound of the integral is \(x\) and discusses the relationship between the integral and its primitive function, suggesting that differentiating the integral leads to \(f(x)\).
  • There is a clarification regarding the evaluation of \(F'(a)\) and its distinction from the derivative of a constant.
  • One participant questions the assertion that \(F'(a) = 0\), leading to further discussion about the differentiation of constants versus functions.
  • Another participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding notation and expresses gratitude for the clarification received.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the relationship between definite integrals and their derivatives, but there remains confusion and disagreement regarding specific details, particularly concerning the evaluation of derivatives at constants and the interpretation of certain mathematical statements.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of notation and the need for clearer definitions of terms such as "primitive" and "constant" in the context of differentiation and integration.

ryt
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
i start to study integrals, i couldn't understand some things.
definite integrals i didnt understand, ill show it on some eg. on v as derivative of disaonce s.

the eg. was to calc how many distance s = ? does a particle travell when we throw it in air (up) and v reaches 0.
so in time t = 0 we have v0 = 10 m/s. The v(t) is a linear func decreasing and reaches 0 at time t1.
So the distance s is the definite integral of v(t) on intervals t0 and t1, so it is the surface under the v(t) from t0 to t1.
Im ok since here, i wondered where is this integral on a s(t) graph, i asked my friend and he told me theat this surface is at t1 as s(t1). Then i wondered how would i find some s(t) at some time between t0 and t1, and ocured to me i would take definite integral from t0 to some time t<t1, i would calc it and i would have some s(t<t1).
But now what i don't understand is what would happen if i move t0 to some t0<0, and then calc definite integral from t0<0 to t1 and what would i get??

some other thing i don't understand is:
in my book it says the derivative od definite integral is f(x)
\frac{d}{dx} \int_{a}^{x} f(t)dt = f(x)

isnt it when we take definite integral of same func we get a number (rapresenting the surface under the function), so the derivative of a number is 0 not f(x)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
ryt said:
some other thing i don't understand is:
in my book it says the derivative od definite integral is f(x)
\frac{d}{dx} \int_{a}^{x} f(t)dt = f(x)

isnt it when we take definite integral of same func we get a number (rapresenting the surface under the function), so the derivative of a number is 0 not f(x)

Notice that the superior bound of the integral is x. So if f(x) has a primitive (i.e. if there exists a function F(x) such that F'(x)=f(x)), then \int_a^x f(t) dt=F(x)-F(a). You can now differentiate this with respect to x, and you get just f(x), since F'(x)=f and F'(a)=0.

(Note that as soon as f is continuous on (a,b), it has a primitive on (a,b))
 
Last edited:
thx

how do u know F'(a)=0 ??
 
He meant differentiate f(a) (which is a number) with respect to x, not evaluate f'(x) at a.
 
quasar987 said:
Notice that the superior bound of the integral is x. So if f(x) has a primitive (i.e. if there exists a function F(x) such that F'(x)=f(x)), then \int_a^x f(t) dt=F(x)-F(a). You can now differentiate this with respect to x, and you get just f(x), since F'(x)=f and F'(a)=0.

(Note that as soon as f is continuous on (a,b), it has a primitive on (a,b))

No, F'(a) is not 0, it is f(a). What you may have meant to say is that F(a= \int_a^a f(t)dt)= 0.
 
?!

But Halls, if you agree that that if F is a primitive of f, then the derivative of the function G(x) =\int_a^x f(t) dt=F(x)-F(a), is F'(x) + \frac{d}{dx}F(a), but F(a) is a constant, so that's 0.
 
the derivative of F(a) (for a a constant) is not the same as F'(a).
 
ok sorry about the bad notation..
 
thx :) i understand it now
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K