Understanding Inductance: Formulas & Contradictions Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formulas and concepts related to inductance, specifically the definitions and interpretations of flux linkage and magnetic flux as presented in different textbooks. Participants explore the implications of these definitions on the calculation of inductance and energy in inductors, highlighting differences between engineering and scientific perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the formulas for inductance, noting discrepancies between two textbooks regarding the definitions of flux linkage (\Lambda) and magnetic flux (\Phi).
  • Another participant suggests that the difference in notation reflects a distinction between engineering and scientific perspectives, where \Lambda is seen as total flux linkage and \Phi as total flux through the coil.
  • A participant clarifies that both definitions can be reconciled in terms of energy equations, but highlights that the definitions of \Phi and \Lambda are treated differently in calculations of self-inductance.
  • Further elaboration is provided on how scientists and engineers approach the calculation of inductance, with engineers focusing on the flux through a single turn while scientists consider the total effective region for multiple turns.
  • Participants discuss the implications of these differing approaches on the calculation of inductance, leading to potentially different results depending on the definitions used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definitions of flux and flux linkage, as differing interpretations persist between engineering and scientific viewpoints. The discussion remains unresolved regarding which approach is more appropriate or accurate.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions and calculations depend on the context in which they are applied, leading to potential discrepancies in results. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the assumptions underlying each approach.

yungman
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I am confused on the formulas of inductance.

In "Fields and Waves Electromagnetics" by David Cheng:

[tex]L = \frac{\Lambda}{I} \;\hbox{ where }\; \Lambda = N \Phi[/tex]

N is the number of turns on the inductor, [itex]\Lambda[/itex] is called flux linkage and

[tex]\Phi = \int_S \vec B \cdot d\vec l[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow W = \frac 1 2 LI^2[/tex]



But when derive energy of inductor in "Introduction to Electrodynamics" by Griffiths. p317 and also later part of Cheng's book gave.

[tex]L = \frac{\Phi}{ I} \;\hbox { instead of }\; \frac{\Lambda}{I}[/tex]

During derivation of energy using magnetic field:

[tex]\frac {dW}{dt} = IV[/tex]

[tex]-V=\int_C \vec E \cdot d\vec l =\int_S \vec B \cdot d\vec S = -\frac {\partial \Phi}{\partial t} \;\Rightarrow\; W=\frac 1 2 I\phi[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow\; L=\frac{\Phi}{I}[/tex]

So the two are contradicting and I don't know how to make of it. Can anyone help explain this?

Thanks

Alan
 
Last edited:
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Hello yungman,
I believe engineers and scientists sometimes *like* talking at different frequencies :biggrin: The [tex]\Lambda[/tex] in the former text and [tex]\Phi[/tex] in the latter one are the same:
_ Engineers understand [tex]\Lambda=N\phi[/tex] as flux linkage, where [tex]\phi[/tex] is the flux through 1 round of the coil. So [tex]\Lambda[/tex] is simply the total flux through the coil.
_ Scientists understand as [tex]\Phi[/tex] as the TOTAL flux through the coil.
They are just different notations :wink:
 
Thanks for the reply. This make sense in:

[tex]L = \frac{\Lambda}{I} \;\hbox{ vs }\; L = \frac{\Phi}{I}[/tex]

and in energy equation:

[tex]W=\frac 1 2 \sum_{k=1}^ N LI^2 \;\hbox { vs }\; W=\frac 1 2 \sum_{k=1}^ N I\Phi[/tex]

But then both books went on and defind:

[tex]\Phi = \int_S \vec B \cdot d\vec S = \int_C \vec A \cdot d\vec l =LI[/tex]

Lets look at the calculation of self inductance of a long coil that has radius = a and N turn per unit length. To calculate inductance per unit length using this formula:

[tex]\vec B = \mu NI \;\Rightarrow\; \Phi = \int _S \vec B \cdot d \vec S = \mu N I \pi a^2 \;\Rightarrow\; L =\mu N \pi a^2[/tex]

But if you use:

[tex]\Phi = \int_S \vec B \cdot d\vec S \;\hbox{ and }\; \Lambda = N\Phi = \mu N^2I(\pi a^2) \;\Rightarrow L=\mu N^2 (\pi a^2)[/tex]

So you see you cannot assume the physics book treat [itex]\Phi[/itex] as [itex]\Lambda[/itex] in engineering book.
 
yungman said:
[tex]\vec B = \mu NI \;\Rightarrow\; \Phi = \int _S \vec B \cdot d \vec S = \mu N I \pi a^2 \;\Rightarrow\; L =\mu N \pi a^2[/tex]

The region S (under the integral notation) in this case is actually the total region formed by N turns. This is how scientists work. So the correct calculation for this is:
[tex]\Phi = \int _S \vec B \cdot d \vec S = \mu N I \times N \pi a^2 \;\Rightarrow\; L =\mu N^2 \pi a^2[/tex]

[tex]\Phi = \int_S \vec B \cdot d\vec S \;\hbox{ and }\; \Lambda = N\Phi = \mu N^2I(\pi a^2) \;\Rightarrow L=\mu N^2 (\pi a^2)[/tex]

And in this case, S is the region of just 1 turn. This is how engineers work.

So while engineers go from magnetic flux of 1 turn [tex]\Phi_{engineer}[/tex] then flux linkage [tex]\Lambda[/tex], scientists simply care about the net effective region which corresponds to the total flux [tex]\Phi_{scientist}[/tex], which turns out to be equal to [tex]\Lambda[/tex].
 
I see, thanks for your help. I guess I am the only odd ball engineer here also!:biggrin:

Have a nice day.

Alan
 

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