Understanding Negative Pressure: Myth or Reality in Gases and Liquids?

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    Negative Pressure
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of negative pressure in gases and liquids, examining whether it is a myth or a reality. Participants explore theoretical implications, practical examples, and the definitions of pressure types, including absolute and gauge pressure, within the context of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of Wikipedia's claim that certain gases can exert negative pressure, suggesting it may refer to negative gauge pressure instead.
  • Others argue that negative absolute pressure does exist, particularly in solids and in specific biological processes, such as the transpiration pull in plants.
  • There is a discussion about the conditions under which negative pressure might be observed, including the role of attractive forces in fluids and the stability of such states.
  • Some participants assert that while liquids can support tension (often associated with negative absolute pressure), gases cannot due to the lack of intermolecular bonds.
  • One participant mentions the van der Waals isothermal curves, indicating regions where pressure can drop below zero, but questions the stability of such states.
  • There is a consensus that fluids, particularly in a gaseous state, cannot sustain negative absolute pressure, but some uncertainty remains regarding exceptional cases in liquids.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the existence and implications of negative absolute pressure in gases and liquids. While some assert that it is a valid concept under certain conditions, others maintain that it is a misunderstanding of pressure definitions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources and definitions, indicating a reliance on specific interpretations of pressure types and fluid mechanics principles. There are mentions of potential exceptions and the need for further reputable sources to clarify the topic.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in physics, engineering, and fluid mechanics, as well as those exploring the theoretical aspects of pressure in different states of matter.

  • #31
stewartcs said:
Cavitation doesn't explain it. In fact, it would contradict it since when the pressure of the liquid drops below the vapor pressure, boiling of the liquid would occur. If the liquid is now vaporized you certainly can't say it supporting a tensile stress.

CS

I could have been unclear- I am referring to the *nucleation* of a bubble, not it's growth. Nucleation occurs via tunneling through a high-energy barrier (which is significantly lowered when there is dissolved gas or contaminants), and that energy barrier represents the tensile strength.

http://pof.aip.org/resource/1/pfldas/v12/i9/p1775_s1?isAuthorized=no
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2002/2001WR000282.shtml
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la100268q
 
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