Understanding the Helmholtz free energy, what does 'useful work' really mean?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Helmholtz free energy (F) in the context of thermodynamics, specifically addressing the meaning of 'useful work' in closed systems at constant temperature and volume. Participants explore theoretical implications and seek clarification on the practical understanding of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how a closed system can perform work when its temperature and volume are fixed, questioning the definition of 'useful work' in this context.
  • Another participant asserts that temperature and volume cannot remain constant simultaneously, suggesting that Helmholtz free energy is a thermodynamic potential that may not be directly extractable from the system.
  • A request is made for examples of systems in equilibrium that perform 'useful work' equivalent to Helmholtz free energy.
  • One participant proposes a theoretical framework, explaining that Gibbs and Helmholtz free energies are transformations of total internal energy and that they account for conditions imposed by the environment, which affect energy extraction and the concept of 'useful work.'

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of 'useful work' or the conditions under which Helmholtz free energy applies. Multiple viewpoints and interpretations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of 'useful work' and the conditions under which Helmholtz free energy is applicable. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of thermodynamic potentials and their practical implications.

zhermes
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When it comes to thermal/statistical mechanics, I'm a little retarded... so bear with me please.

I've used the helmholtz free energy (F) dozens of times, almost as many times as I've heard and read that F is a measure of the 'useful work attainable from a closed thermodynamic system,' at constant temperature and volume. I don't really understand what that means though. How does a closed system even do work when its temperature and volume are fixed (therefore it can't lose heat and can't exert p dV work right?)

Again, I've seen the equations, and heard the lines; but I'm hoping some enlightened and compassionate soul can share their wisdom and philosophical insight to what it all really means.

Thanks!
 
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The temperature and volume do not stay constant at the same time. Otherwise F doesn't change.
AFAIK the Helmholtz energy is just a thermodynamical potential and is not necessarily extractable from the system.
Normally "useful work" is anything that does not go into heat.
Maybe this helps maybe not.
 
The first part helps a lot.
The rest is still a step in the right direction.

Can you (or anyone) give me an example of a system in equilibrium doing 'useful work' equivalent to F?
 
I have this feeling how this whole wording came about. The Gibbs free energy and the Helmholtz free energy are transforms of the total internal energy U. They are basically convex envelopes of U transformed into new coordinates.
What does this mean?
A system always tries to minimize U, just because it tends to not get back the energy it dissipates to its environment. You see for this it doesn't really matter if you add some constant offset only differences are important.
But Gibbs and Helmholtz noticed that in the "real world" the environment tends to keep certain variables constant. For example experiments in air tend to stay at atmospheric pressure and set ups like combustion engines force the medium into a cylinder that cannot change its volume. This changes the energy budget. So they proposed to transform into another potential which would not be the total energy but what they called "free energy". The energy that actually gets transferred when the environment controls things like temperature, or pressure. And I think this is what they mean by 'useful work attainable from a closed thermodynamic system'. The absolute value is not important, only the fact, that you have to calculate the differences in free energy when your system changes and not the total energy because the environment limits how much you can tap into it.
 

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