Understanding the math of inductance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding the mathematics of inductance, particularly the application of Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Participants explore various formulas related to inductance, the factors influencing induced electromotive force (emf), and the implications of different geometries and materials in the context of solenoids and magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant provides a formula for induced emf and discusses the variables involved, including the number of turns in the coil and flux density.
  • Another participant suggests that different formulas arise from varying geometries and emphasizes that the variation of the magnetic field is accounted for in the flux term.
  • A participant notes that the rate of change of flux (ΔΦ/Δt) incorporates frequency, indicating that higher frequency leads to a greater value of ΔΦ/Δt.
  • One participant corrects a previous statement about flux density and flux, clarifying that flux is obtained by integrating flux density over an area and highlighting the distinction between scalar and vector quantities.
  • A participant presents a specific example involving a solenoid and requests clarification on the calculations and the relationship between different formulas for magnetic field strength.
  • Another participant challenges the validity of the calculations presented, questioning the feasibility of the resulting emf value and suggesting that the current's time dependence in AC must be considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of formulas and the implications of various factors affecting inductance. There is no consensus on the correctness of the calculations presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific example of the solenoid.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention several variables and assumptions that may influence the results, such as the permeability of materials, the frequency of the AC current, and the integration of flux density over an area. The discussion highlights the complexity of the relationships involved in inductance without resolving these complexities.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying electromagnetism, electrical engineering, or physics, particularly those looking to deepen their understanding of inductance and related mathematical concepts.

Jayen
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Hello all,

I do apologize if this is in the wrong section as this is my first post. If I have posted in the wrong area please let me know.

I have a basic understanding of the concept of inductance but have read many formulas which I think are trying to express the same idea but from various sources. I would like to put my understanding forward and have it corrected where need be.

Faraday law determines the amount of emf (Voltage) which will be induced by a coil of wire into an electromagnetic field.

emf (voltage induced) = -N Δ\Phi / Δt

where N = number of turns in the coil
\Phi = Flux density (BA) measured in Teslas
B = I think this depends on the type of coil, for a solenoid B = Mo n I
where Mo = 4pi x 10-7
n = number of turns in coil / length of the coil
I = current
A = Cross sectional area of the coil (pi r2)
t = time

There are a few variables I would think may be a factor in this equation which are not included. Firstly the permeability of the core and secondly the frequency at which the magnetic field changes.

Any help in understand these equations would be greatly appreciated.

Thankyou.
 
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ΔΦ / Δt term also take frequency into account. More the frequency, more will be the value of ΔΦ / Δt. Flux is due to magnetic motive force which is a function of current. Suppose current is i=cos(2*pi*f*t), taking rate of change of this current will move 2*pi*f outside and voltage will have a direct relation with frequency.
 
Jayen said:
Hello all,




emf (voltage induced) = -N Δ\Phi / Δt

where N = number of turns in the coil
\Phi = Flux density (BA) measured in Teslas
B = I think this depends on the type of coil, for a solenoid B = Mo n I
where Mo = 4pi x 10-7
n = number of turns in coil / length of the coil
I = current
A = Cross sectional area of the coil (pi r2)
t = time

\Phi is flux not flux density. Once you integrate B (flux density) over and area you get flux (\Phi). It may not seem like much of a distinction but it's important. Flux density is a vector field with magnitude and direction (like the flow of water currents). Flux is a scalar value (like the total amount of water flow through the mouth of a bay).

For a solenoid, B = \mu NI/l

In general, B = \mu H (Sometimes you have to account for the magnetization of the material so this one is not always true)

So the magnetic field strength is, H = NI/l

And flux density is, B = \mu_0 \mu_r H

Where \mu_r is the relative permeability of the material and \mu = \mu_0 \mu_r
 
Thanks very much for your replies. I think this has clear things up for me but just to make sure I am 100% clear in my head I want to see if I am correct (this is not homework).

If I have a solenoid of 10 cm total length, 100 turns, iron core (200 μ) and radius of 4cm with 1500W @ 1500V 120Hz AC. Would the following be correct?

emf = -100 ΔΦ / Δt
B = 200 x 100 x 100 / 0.1 (200 000 T)
A = 0.00503m2
Φ = 1006 Tm2

emf = -12 120 481

I have also seen B = μN2A/l and I would assume this relates to a solenoid. Could someone please elaborate how the two differ.
 
Your result is 12 million volts for a little solenoid?

Current is a function of time in AC. Your result should be a function of time too.

Have you studied Calculus? Do you know how to take a derivative?
 

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