Understanding the Relationship Between Wheel Rotation and Turning Difficulty

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between wheel rotation and the difficulty of turning a vehicle, specifically focusing on the factors that influence this dynamic in cars and motorcycles. Participants explore concepts related to angular momentum, moment of inertia, torque, caster angle, and cornering forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the belief that turning a wheel becomes more difficult at higher speeds, suggesting it relates to angular momentum.
  • Another participant recommends starting with motorcycles for a simpler understanding, noting the importance of leaning to turn.
  • A participant expresses concern over unexpectedly high values for moment of inertia and angular acceleration in their analysis, questioning their accuracy.
  • Discussion includes the role of caster angle in turning dynamics, with a participant explaining how turning the wheel creates a torque in the opposite direction due to the contact point of the tire.
  • One participant mentions that the momentum of the vehicle interacts with the caster angle to create a self-straightening torque, particularly in heavier and faster vehicles.
  • Another point raised is the impact of contact patch deformation and slip angle at higher cornering forces, which generates opposing torque to steering inputs.
  • A participant notes that without caster, at low speeds, the wheels would not torque back, which contrasts with common experience where caster is always present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views and explanations regarding the factors affecting turning difficulty, with no consensus reached on the primary influences or the accuracy of the initial assumptions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the accuracy of their calculations and observations, highlighting potential limitations in their qualitative analysis and the complexity of vehicle dynamics.

Polyrix
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Hi guys,

I have a question. I have lived life in the apparent belief that if a car is moving at a fast enough speed, turning it's wheel becomes increasingly difficult. Could somebody explain that concept to me? I assume it has something to do with the angular momentum of the wheel to make the rotation?

Thank you. Also, please offer any advice on how I can quantify the information... I am doing an analysis of a car.

Thank you.
 
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It's much simpler if you look at a motorcycle to start. There, you must lean left to turn left. In a car, there's a whole bunch of stuff to consider. The car may be set up to understeer or oversteer for example. And, you have to look at the camber angle, etc, etc. Start with motorcycles.
 
Unfortunately, its the assignment. I'm getting rediculous values.. around 700 for moment of inertia, around 500 for angular acceleration, resulting in a torque that's... really, really large. I'm assuming those are probably wrong? I'm doing this all on qualitative observation of a tape.
 
The momentum of the auto acts on the caster angle to straighten the wheel out. Heavier and faster moving autos will have a stronger self-straightening torque on the steering axis.

Do you have diagram of auto's front-suspension with steering arm? The offset of the steering arm from steering-axis will give you leverage. The steering-axis inclination will also result in another offset called scrub-radius that affects the force required to turn the wheel as well.
 
Last edited:
In addition to the caster, at higher cornering forces, you also have contact patch deformation related to slip angle that also generates an opposing torque to steering inputs.
 
What's interesting is that if there where no caster (and if it is at low speeds with no contact patch ;) ) then the wheels will not torque back, which seems counter to experience. But in everyday experience there is always a caster, no matter how small.
 

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