Understanding Time Dilation: A Confusing Experiment Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of time dilation as illustrated by a light clock experiment. Participants explore the implications of a moving light clock and the behavior of photons in different reference frames, raising questions about the nature of light's velocity and its interaction with moving observers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a light clock experiment where a photon bounces between mirrors, suggesting that the path taken by the photon changes when the clock is in motion, leading to time dilation.
  • Another participant uses an analogy of bouncing a basketball in a moving airplane to question whether the behavior of light in a moving reference frame is similar, asking if the photon would travel straight up or slam into the back of the spaceship.
  • Some participants inquire whether inertia applies to photons, questioning the behavior of light when emitted in a moving frame, such as shining a laser pointer in an airplane.
  • One participant discusses the potential confusion arising from translations of Einstein's work, emphasizing the distinction between speed and velocity, and how this affects the understanding of light's behavior in moving frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of how light behaves in moving reference frames, with some agreeing on the analogy of the basketball while others question the implications of inertia for photons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of light's velocity and its interaction with moving sources.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the behavior of light in different reference frames, particularly regarding the definitions of speed and velocity, and how these concepts apply to photons in motion.

chocolatesheep
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I've seen an experiment with a light clock that explains time dilation. A photon is fired and gets reflected off of 2 parallel mirrors. It keeps bouncing back and forth like that, with each bounce qualifying as one tick of the clock. And it looks like that from a stationary reference frame. Now if the clock is moving to the right at some highs speed relative to us, the photon would need to travel in a triangular path. Therefor it takes longer for the clock to tick considering that the speed of light or a photon is constant and equal "c" for all reference frames. I'm sure you all know what the diagram of this experiment looks like: http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys200/lectures/dilation/red_time_a.gif


Now here's what I don't understand. Imagine the same scenario, now with a person in the same reference frame as the clock inside a space ship. So now we have that person and our light clock moving to the right at some high speed. The person looks at the clock, a photon is fired straight up from the bottom mirror to the top mirror so it's just bouncing back and forth infinitely. When we look at the photon being fired, wouldn't the photon just travel straight up and down a few times (non triangular path) and then just slam into the back of the spaceship (because the spaceship is moving towards it). That's what I don't understand. Because from what I've read, the photon is moving to the right with the entire space ship. How does it get that velocity to the right when the speed of electromagnetic waves is not dependent of the speed of the source. Why wouldn't the photon slam into the back of the spaceship?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Imagine you are in an almost empty 747 airplane, seats removed, flying at a high and constant velocity and without any turbulence.

Could you bounce a basketball?
Or play table tennis?

Would the ball slam into the back of the plane or would it simply come straight up?
Or when you use the water faucet does the water crash against the wall instead of going straight down?
 
So does that mean that inertia applies to photons also?
 
chocolatesheep said:
So does that mean that inertia applies to photons also?
What would happen when you shine a laser pointer to the roof of the plane, does the light beam curve or does it go straight up?
 
There is a recurring confusion about this, usually from reading Einstein translated from the German, or from other sources that don't clear the distinction carefully. The translations use the word "velocity" for the German word meaning simply "speed". But velocity includes direction...

So, when you read that the "velocity" of light is independent from the source motion, one may think this includes both speed and direction, and then it does seem to suggest that the light shouldn't "carry long" with a moving source because of the light's direction (the direction being at right angle for the local observer with the clock, but if also at right angle from the perspective of an observer at rest, that observer would expect the light to be left behind the advancing mirrors and hit the spacecraft wall).

But only light's speed is independent of the source motion, not its velocity (not the direction component).
 

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