Unit reduction is not making sense, what's going on?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the unit reduction of an equation for critical sonic velocity, specifically examining the inclusion of the gravitational constant and the correct units for the gas constant. Participants are analyzing the equation's dimensional consistency and addressing potential misunderstandings regarding the constants involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a unit reduction process for the equation of critical sonic velocity, expressing confusion over the resulting units not matching expected velocity units.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of the gravitational constant (g) in the equation, suggesting it may not be relevant to the context of sonic velocity.
  • A different participant asks for clarification on the variable R, implying that the units for the gas constant might be incorrect.
  • Several participants assert that the gravitational constant should not be included in the formula for critical sonic velocity, indicating that it is unrelated to the concept being discussed.
  • One participant clarifies the units for the universal gas constant, noting that it varies depending on whether it is specific to a gas or the universal constant.
  • Another participant confirms that the g in the equation is a unitless constant used for conversions in English units, which becomes unnecessary in SI units.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the inclusion of the gravitational constant in the equation, with some asserting it is unnecessary while others question its role. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the constants involved or the proper units for the gas constant.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in understanding the equation due to differing unit systems (English vs. SI) and the specific context of the gas constant being used. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the definitions and roles of the constants in the equation.

unreal89
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I am using an equation that states that critical sonic velocity is:

a_{cr}=\sqrt{\frac{2\gamma}{\gamma+1}gR_{gas}T'}

The units should result in velocity (\frac{m}{s})

Yet, when I do the unit reduction I do not get that answer.

Here is what I get:

Lets ignore the square root for now.
Also, \frac{2\gamma}{\gamma+1} has no units, so that makes our job easier.

We are left with gR_{gas}T'

With this we have: \left( \frac{m}{s^{2}}\right)\left( \frac{kJ}{kg\bullet K}\right)\left(K\right)

Right away we cancel the Kelvin unit.

We now have: \left( \frac{m}{s^{2}}\right)\left( \frac{kJ}{kg}\right)
Next we conver kJ to N∙m: \left( \frac{m}{s^{2}}\right)\left( \frac{1000 N \bullet m}{kg}\right)

And N to \frac{kg∙m}{s^{2}}: \left( \frac{m}{s^{2}}\right)\left( \frac{1000 \frac{kg∙m}{s^{2}} \bullet m}{kg}\right) = \left( \frac{m}{s^{2}}\right)\left( \frac{1000 m^{2}}{s^{2}}\right) = \left( \frac{1000m^{3}}{s^{4}}\right)

Now if we throw the square root back on we see that:

\sqrt{\left( \frac{1000m^{3}}{s^{4}}\right)}≠\frac{m}{s}

I'm sure I am making a silly mistake somewhere, but I cannot find where. The text I got this from used English units and it checked out. I though that SI units would be even easier...

Thanks!
 
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it's almost as if you did not need g to be in there...are you sure that g is supposed to be there? and is it really gravity? Are you sure is not just supposed to mean gamma? ...maybe you have doubled up in your constants...Wikipedia shows speed to be sqrt(gamma X Rgas X T)
 
What is R?

If it's the gas constant your units for it are wrong.
 
Critical sonic velocity does not have anything to do with the planet's gravity. Therefore, g (the way you used it) should not enter the formula.
 
The unit for the universal gas constant is:

<br /> [R] = \frac{\mathrm{J}}{\mathrm{K} \cdot \mathrm{mol}}<br />
 
unreal89: The g in your equation isn't gravity; it's a unitless constant. I have a hunch it's a conversion factor that makes the conversion from lbm to lbf easier when you're dealing with English units. You can ignore it when dealing in metric units, since gc=1 in that case. I would like to see the equation from the original text to make sure I'm telling you right.

About the R, unreal89 has the right units, but it's for a specific gas. The universal gas constant has units of J/mol*K, but moles is a very inconvenient measurement for problems like this, so we divide the universal constant by the molar mass of the gas to get a constant specific to whatever gas we're analyzing. The accepted units for this constant are kJ/kg*K. This equation insists on a constant for a specific gas, because as you can see, it wouldn't yield the right units otherwise.
 
You are correct, Tim. The g in this equation is used for converting lbm to lbf. Once you go into SI units, it is unnecessary.

Thanks for everyone's help.
 

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