Using hyperbolic substitution to solve an integral

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an integral using hyperbolic substitution, with a specific focus on how to apply the result from one part of the problem to another. Participants are exploring the connections between the two parts of the integral and the appropriate substitutions to use.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need for hyperbolic substitutions and question the correctness of algebraic manipulations. There is uncertainty about how to transition from part a to part b of the problem, particularly regarding the choice of substitution and simplification of expressions.

Discussion Status

Several participants have provided feedback on attempts to solve the integral, noting mistakes in algebra and suggesting areas for improvement. There is ongoing exploration of different substitution strategies, and while some guidance has been offered, there is no explicit consensus on the best approach yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of homework rules, which may limit the amount of direct assistance they can provide. There is a focus on ensuring that the algebraic steps are correct and that the integration variable is properly defined throughout the discussion.

Howard Fox
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Homework Statement


upload_2019-3-6_0-6-13.png


Homework Equations


So the question is asking to solve an integral and to use the answer of that integral to find an additional integral. With part a, I don't have much problem, but then I don't know how to apply the answer from it to part b. I know I should subsitute all the x's in part b with a trig function, right? But which one? [/B]

The Attempt at a Solution


This is my solution for part a, I am not sure how to work on part b
upload_2019-3-6_1-5-39.png
[/B]
 

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Last edited:
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You are replacing ##\sinh^2x## with ##1+\cosh^2x##. Check your algebra.
 
Also, the derivative of cosh(x) is sinh(x), not -sinh(x).
 
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Okay, I tried to correct the previous mistakes,
upload_2019-3-6_1-4-17.png


Hope this one is good? Thank you
 

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It is good. Look at part (a) and then look at part (b). What kind of hyperbolic substitution is worth trying in (b)?
 
kuruman said:
It is good. Look at part (a) and then look at part (b). What kind of hyperbolic substitution is worth trying in (b)?
I really don't know. I have trouble reconciling the two parts. I guess we could substitute x with asinh?
 
Howard Fox said:
I really don't know. I have trouble reconciling the two parts. I guess we could substitute x with asinh?
Excellent idea! What do you think ##a## ought to be? Hint: Look at the denominator.
 
kuruman said:
Excellent idea! What do you think ##a## ought to be? Hint: Look at the denominator.
It should be 3?
 
kuruman said:
Excellent idea! What do you think ##a## ought to be? Hint: Look at the denominator.

So the final integral should look something like this?
upload_2019-3-6_14-8-17.png

This does seem very complicated to solve though!
 

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  • #10
Howard Fox said:
It should be 3?
Yes.
Howard Fox said:
So the final integral should look something like this?
View attachment 239808
This does seem very complicated to solve though!
That's because your algebra has been careless (again). Take the time to do it right. Then you will see that
(a) the denominator simplifies.
(b) you do not have a proper integral because you substituted ##1## for ##dx##.
(c) the numerator is incorrect.
 
  • #11
kuruman said:
Yes.

That's because your algebra has been careless (again). Take the time to do it right. Then you will see that
(a) the denominator simplifies.
(b) you do not have a proper integral because you substituted ##1## for ##dx##.
(c) the numerator is incorrect.
Uhm, is this any better?

upload_2019-3-6_14-56-4.png
 

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  • #12
Howard Fox said:
Uhm, is this any better?

View attachment 239812
Much better. Now concentrate on simplifying the denominator. How could you get rid of the radical? How does one usually get rid of a radical?
 
  • #13
kuruman said:
Much better. Now concentrate on simplifying the denominator. How could you get rid of the radical? How does one usually get rid of a radical?
Raising both denominator and numerator to the power of two?
 
  • #14
You would do that if the expression under the radical is not a perfect square. Certainly the ##9## in the denominator is a perfect square. What about the rest? Hint: Why did you choose ##3## for the substitution ##x=3\sinh v##?
 
  • #15
kuruman said:
You would do that if the expression under the radical is not a perfect square. Certainly the ##9## in the denominator is a perfect square. What about the rest? Hint: Why did you choose ##3## for the substitution ##x=3\sinh v##?
/
upload_2019-3-6_15-27-17.png

Just take the radical of the values like this?
 

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  • #16
Howard Fox said:
/View attachment 239813
Just take the radical of the values like this?
Absolutely not ! Is ##\sqrt{2^2+1^2}=2+1=3~##?
 
  • #17
kuruman said:
Absolutely not ! Is ##\sqrt{2^2+1^2}=2+1=3~##?
Okay, went back to my textbook. This should be the way to simplify the denominator, right?

upload_2019-3-6_15-35-56.png
 

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  • #18
Right, except there is more carelessness. What is your integration variable?
 
  • #19
kuruman said:
Right, except there is more carelessness. What is your integration variable?
It was dx but then we substituted it to du, no?
 

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