Using Ideal and Constant Voltage Drop Models

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around diode circuit analysis using both ideal diode and constant voltage drop models. Participants explore the implications of redrawing circuits and the effects of assuming the diode is on, particularly regarding current through resistors in the circuit.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their process of redrawing a circuit for analysis and questions whether their assumption about the diode being on leads to a short circuit affecting current through resistors.
  • Another participant suggests that the diode will limit the voltage across its parallel resistor to a specified forward voltage (Vf), typically around 0.6V or 0.7V.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of using a Vf of 0V for an ideal diode, with one participant asking for clarification on this assumption.
  • One participant expresses concern about the practicality of determining current when a resistor is effectively shorted by the diode.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of using the Vf versus If curve from the diode datasheet for more accurate circuit analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of their assumptions regarding the diode's behavior. Multiple views on the ideal versus constant voltage drop models remain, and the discussion includes both technical explanations and uncertainties.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the dependence of the diode's forward voltage on the current through it, indicating that assumptions made may vary based on the specific diode characteristics and conditions of the circuit.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students practicing diode circuit analysis, particularly those exploring the differences between ideal and constant voltage drop models in electrical engineering contexts.

NBaumbick

Homework Statement


I am practicing diode circuit analysis for an ideal diode model and constant voltage drop model.I have an initial circuit shown here:
20170930_194140.jpg

Which I then redraw to look like this:
20170930_194155.jpg

I want to make sure my process in redrawing this was correct. When I attempt to get current through the two resistors, if I assume the diode is on in the ideal instance, I obtain a value for I1 but wouldn't that end up short circuiting the path to the second resistor giving a result of 0Amps for I2?
 
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NBaumbick said:

Homework Statement


I am practicing diode circuit analysis for an ideal diode model and constant voltage drop model.I have an initial circuit shown here:
View attachment 212044
Which I then redraw to look like this:
View attachment 212045
I want to make sure my process in redrawing this was correct. When I attempt to get current through the two resistors, if I assume the diode is on in the ideal instance, I obtain a value for I1 but wouldn't that end up short circuiting the path to the second resistor giving a result of 0Amps for I2?
Welcome to the pf.

I didn't follow your re-draw part, but basically the diode will clamp/limit the voltage cross its parallel resistor to whatever you are given for Vf of the diode (0.6V? 0.7V?)...
 
berkeman said:
Welcome to the pf.

I didn't follow your re-draw part, but basically the diode will clamp/limit the voltage cross its parallel resistor to whatever you are given for Vf of the diode (0.6V? 0.7V?)...
I'll use 0.7V for the constant voltage drop method but I have to be able to analyze a circuit like this using the ideal diode model as well which is where I am having trouble.
 
You have chosen 0.7V for your initial ideal diode equations. Vf of a diode depends on If for a real diode.

I guess the super-ideal diode situation assumes 0V=Vf. Can you show your work for that assumption?
 
I can try but it is basically still the picture representation. If I assume the diode to be on it is replaced with a short circuit and considering both paths are going to ground, doesn't this basically make a jumper wire effect?
 

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I can try but it is basically still the picture representation. If I assume the diode to be on it is replaced with a short circuit and considering both paths are going to ground, doesn't this basically make a jumper wire effect?
20170930_210452.jpg
 
Yes, if the diode Vf is 0V, then the one resistor is shrted and you are left with only one resistor.
 
Ok, it seemed suspicious that a practice problem should want the current when the resistor is shorted. Thank you for affirming.
 
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Welcome. And in the more practical circuit analysis problem, you would use the Vf versus If curve published in the diode datasheet to write the equation to figure out the currents and voltages. Using the Vf=0V ideal diode assumption just makes that solution easier to get to. :smile:
 
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