Van der Waals gas is not real gas?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the van der Waals equation and its implications for real gases, particularly in relation to critical properties and experimental observations. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of the van der Waals model and its limitations in accurately describing real gases.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant derives critical properties from the van der Waals equation and finds discrepancies between theoretical and experimental values for the parameter b.
  • Another participant questions whether the gas in question can be considered a perfect van der Waals gas, suggesting that the assumptions of the model may not hold in practice.
  • A third participant expresses confusion over the terminology, questioning the distinction between "real gas" and "perfect van der Waals gas."
  • A later reply emphasizes that the van der Waals equation is based on simplified assumptions and that no actual gas perfectly follows this equation, highlighting potential misunderstandings regarding the term "real gas."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus. There are competing views regarding the applicability of the van der Waals equation to real gases and the interpretation of what constitutes a "real gas."

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumptions inherent in the van der Waals equation, the potential misinterpretation of terminology related to real gases versus ideal gases, and the unresolved nature of the discrepancies between theoretical predictions and experimental results.

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From van der Waals , (P+a/v^2)(v-b)=RT,
At critical temperature, I get (∂P/∂V)at constant temperature =0
and (∂^2P/∂V^2) at constant temperature ,T=0.
then critical pressure,P = a/(27b^2)--------1
critical volume,v=3b-----------2
critical temperature=8a/(27Rb)----------3
then simultaneous equation 1 and 3,
I get b=(RT/8P), b=(v/3) ------------------4
But from the experiment, we get T,P,v and then substitute into the two equation from 4,both b have different values. Why?

Thank you
 
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(P+a/v^2)(v-b)=RT

Using your equations:
P = a/(27b^2)
v=3b
T=8a/(27Rb)

I get
(a/(27b^2)+a/(9b^2))(2b)=8Ra/(27Rb)
8/(27b) = 8/(27b)

Looks fine.

But from the experiment, we get T,P,v
Are you sure your real gas is a perfect van-der-Waals gas?
 
mfb said:
(P+a/v^2)(v-b)=RT

Are you sure your real gas is a perfect van-der-Waals gas?

I though all real gas is van der Waals ? Then what do you mean by perfect van der Waals?
 
On other threads which you've started, it's been made clear (I think) that the V der W equation is a theoretical equation based on some quite crude assumptions. No actual gas obeys the V der W equation perfectly. [The confusion may be caused because 'real gas' is sometimes used to mean non-ideal gas, even a theoretical non-ideal gas, and not necessarily an actual gas.]
 

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